crisis of conscience (page 2)

garybuss

Both the Franz books helped me and I appreciated that they were written at all and I appreciate what they said. I'm still curious about what the books didn't say. I kept reading and waiting for the chapter about Ray's wife. Maybe she's working on her own book.

The other chapter that in my opinion, could have been a whole book in itself, was about the topic of the money. Since Ray was a higher than the highest level official in the Watch Tower Society, I expected an outline of the financial structure and the details of the collection and use of the vast sums of donated funds. I was disappointed and I remain disappointed.

The other missing topic is the treatment of the sex offenders and the treatment of their victims. Just here in South Dakota, I'm aware of two Witness pedophiles with multiple victims in the congregations.

I read the two books and found many answers but after I read them, I left with some different questions.

Wasanelder Once

Terry,

I wrote similiar sentiments on a thread "Ray Franz CoC, was he in denial? Just asking." http://www.jehovahs-witness.com/10/121625/1.ashx and felt the wrath of the board. There are some interesting opinions there if you're interested in seeing how many feel on the subject.

W.Once

Terry

I have to say I agree with Terry, but at the same time have the opinion that everything is self serving.

To me, self-serving is not a pejorative. It is intelligent.

It is the "tone" of Crisis of Conscience that bothers me most. Franz is blithe.

It is the tone of a victim. Rightly he, like the rest of us, was self-victimized and we (and he) alone must own the responsibility. Otherwise we are like Adam saying "This woman you gave me....." and cop out on our own ability to say "no" when no is called for.

Franz rationalizes his involvement in policy meetings with a go-along-to-get-along while knowing better which strikes me as cowardly and unsavory.

I can speak this way because I did the same damned thing when the congregation overseer and his assistant told me not to tell the Federal Judge that they had directly counseled me to avoid going into the Military. I didn't understand why they'd have me, in effect, tell a huge, whopping lie. But, I didn't confront them; I went along to get along.

I despise this act of cowardice on my part. I'm not inconsistent now in calling Franz out on it himself.

jaguarbass

Youve arroused my interest. I havent read it since it first came out. I think I will take it off the shelf and re-read it.

lowden

Cyrus

Carry on reading, it's a huge eye-opener.

Terry

I have to agree with your argumentation. I'm not a big fan of Ray Franz, though his book is no doubt a valuable tome in the process of extrication.

For me Ray's biggest mistake in losing my respect was revealing (in the opening few pages of the book) that during his research for the Aid Book, he didn't find any historian to back the WTS's dates for the destruction of Jerusalem and subsequently the beginning of the Gentile Times. Yet he still went ahead and wrote the false date.

His complicity in pushing forward that false date fairly chills me.He knew it was wrong, he says so in the book!!!

His behaviour was very odd indeed. He knowingly underpinned the lie.

Peace

Lowden

cyrus

self serving and why the fxxk not he had served the wtbts his whole working life including his childhood .putting off marriage at the behest of the org until they changed thier mind of course .living in abject poverty then after being cast out like a pile of shit deposited on the lawn he wrote a couple of books to provide for him unlike our great god jah and the money making org supposedly serving this great father mnow at least he wont be buried in a paupers grave like many other witnesses GOOD LUCK to him ...cant wait to read more so let him self serve ..

Paralipomenon

I finally bought it and read it last month.

I was very impressed at some of the details about how the GB operates. But it seems that people treat it like the "apostate's bible". I agreed that there is alot of damning evidence in there about corruption in their decisions but Ray was very much a part of the whole thing as well.

He pushed for the GB to gain control of the WTBTS corporation so that they could make decisions and then complained that no one person had the authority to effect change so the majority ruled. The Governing Body is on auto pilot now, the blind leading the blind and that is a blessing and curse.

A blessing in that their inflexibility is killing the organization and that is the curse as well. This same inflexibility continues to divide families and kill their followers.

So I can say that I enjoyed the book, but as with everything that I learned from leaving the WTS you need to be critical about what you read and decide for yourself.

choosing life

My son who has been out of the jws for twelve years tried to read COC and said he just couldn't because it was written too much like the watchtower and made him feel creepy.

I think it served a valuable purpose. There are many things in there we would still not know if it had not been written. Did Franz have his failings? Sure, but don't we all? He used way too many words to say what could have been said much more concisely. I am sure he profited from it, but I don't blame him for that.

We all know how difficult it is to change your whole life. I'm sure it wasn't easy for a lifer to adjust to life on the outside. There are a lot of issues he didn't address as Gary said. Maybe he will later. He has been out of the loop so long now, I don't know how relevant his information would be.

I respect him the most for not trying to tell people what to believe doctrinely. There are a lot of people who would have listened to him. He touches on the divinity of Christ, but never gives a definitive answer.

I do thank him for the peek he gave us behind the curtain of an abusive religious organization.

Confession

As many of us here can attest, we speak up only if and when we're ready to speak up. I woke up from my Watchtower sleep on September 15th, 2004, but it wasn't until March of 2006 that I could finally admit my position to my mother. And as strongly as I felt, I can admit it was still difficult. I have been preparing my letter to her since that time--and still dread sending it. (I've promised myself that I will before one year has passed.)

When Ray Franz had doubts or concerns while on the body, it is likely that they did not immediately convince him that The Truth wasn't. (Just like most of us, right?) I don't think he tries to paint himself as a savior. The books were the result of a painful process. It was a crisis. It was also a confession.

As this video clip shows, he feels ashamed. So do some of us, don't we? http://www.freeminds.org/video/franz56.html

compound complex

Regarding Objective and Subjective Assessment of the Man, Ray Franz, and His Work:

Please consider the opinions of JWD Board Members, vis-a-vis RF and his writing,

FWF Disavows GB on 9/7/75 --- www.jehovahs-witness.com/6/126699/1.ashx

Compound-Complex

crisis of conscience

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