Will Lack of Leadership Sink the JW Ship?

by Seeker4 55 Replies latest jw friends

• 

  Dismembered

  Greetings S4,

  I think when you've given so much to something. it's just impossible for some people to say it's time to cut their losses and get the hell out!

  That's right on the money. The "what will people think of me" fear syndrome. I too have seen so many youngs ones (including 3 of my own) who had the watchtower jammed downed their throats by fanatic parents, and they (the young ones) just aren't biting. Up here they have left in droves. Perhaps Jehovah will be forced to use the "stones to cry out" in the future. I hope so.

  Dismembered
• 

  james_woods

  A comment and two 1/2 questions:

  Comment - I think that this issue (if proven to be anywhere near the true statistics) is maybe the most significant thing I have read on the JWs in a long, long time.

  Questions -

  a) - are we reasonably sure that this 35% drop is really close to the official tally?

  b) - are we counting the number of Bethel Elders they axed lately? (and does the Society really care if they are losing elders, given this action?)

  If this was happening to any company I worked for, I would think the wheels were coming off.
• 

  garybuss

  This is not my quote. I saved it from somewhere and the writer deserves a medal.
  
  The Witness group is like a terraced mushroom farm. Each level is fed it's own layer of horse shit. The level below is not supposed to see the horse shit of the level above or even be aware if it. When the mushrooms on the lower level look up, all they see are the white heads of the mushrooms on the upper terraces. The lower mushrooms can't see that the upper mushrooms are standing knee deep in their own layer of horse shit too.
  
  
  
  
• 

  moshe

  I went round and round with an elder a few weeks ago on Churches using paid clergy and staff. He was so proud that JW's do everything with volunteers. I told him that quite often free help is worth just what it costs- Nothing. My comment went over his head.
• 

  Seeker4

  Dismembered,

  I think you and I are in the same state, and at one time were in different parts of the same circuit. Fill me in a bit on your comment that so many youngs ones are leaving. I used to know a lot of elders up your way.

  Garybuss - great quote, and an apt metaphor.

  James:

  I agree totally with your statement, and that's why I started this thread.

  Am I reasonably sure about the 35% figure? If you've read the first part of the thread, the figure is based on two seperate comments that Zack, a new poster, heard on two occasions, one being a CO or DO speaker at the 2006 convention, and another from his pioneer school. A couple of others have also heard it said from traveling brothers that we need 40,000 new elders and MS - both comments evidently referring to the US. So that, combined with anecdotal evidence presented here, and the number of congregations, all fits together.

  I wouldn't guarantee the figure without considerably more specific confirmation, but I would not hesitate to say that it looks like the WTS has lost about 35% of its congregation elders over the last decade or so here in the States.

  I agree that it is the most interesting figure I've heard in a long time. The ramifications, if it's even anywhere near accurate, are huge.

  S4
• 

  yaddayadda

  Nup. I think one of the problems with the org is there are TOO MANY leaders! There are too many heirarchies of people with unscriptural titles and roles, MS's, circuit overseers, DO's, Branch overseers, pioneers, committees, etc, etc. This is why nothing changes for the better in the org....it has become a huge, ponderous beaucratic machine the likes of which the USSR would have been proud of. It's like a giant oil-tanker that takes 5 miles to turn around or pick up any inertia.
  
  The Society needs to get rid of all these cumbersome 'middle manager' roles and simplify things. It needs to abandon structuring itself like a global corporation (which it utterly is) with all these layers of 'leaderships' and get back to the basic, humble arrangement found in the bible.
  
  Basically it needs to go back to the old, simple pre-Rutherford structure, without all these rings of centralised control.
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  sass_my_frass

  My opinion is that it's not the elders who get most people to the meetings; most JWs have no other social life or friends. I'll bet that if they start running out of men to do the chores there will be plenty of elderettes willing to step in and take over. Congregations in many countries survive without an elder; women run the meetings and arrange field service, and they're blessed with a CO every six months that every woman tries to be the best cook for. I think that the majority of JW women will be there until they're decrepit.
• 

  MeneMene

  sass_my_frass, when I was reading through the posts I was thinking the same thing.
  
  I remember several times when I was young and no 'brother' showed up for service, a 'sister' handled everything including the prayer.
  
  Of course she had to wear a hankie on her head but as long as they have plenty of head coverings I would expect they will carry on.
• 

  dozy

  A few random thoughts...

  At the "top" , I agree with other posters that the WTS lacks a charismatic , enthusiastic leader. At least Russell & Rutherford were business or legal people and had experience in running large organisations. All the current GB are placemen , chosen from a tiny pool of "anointed" individuals who have received their position by keeping their heads down & showing no initiative or enterprise whatsoever.The lack of any serious scholar in the upper echelons makes it very difficult to make any theological progress , or any dramatic change in WTS policy or doctrine. I suspect any project like the Insight book (itself virtually a cut and paste job from Franz's Aid book) would almost be impossible for the WTS now - all that they can produce is an increasingly number of dumbed down books and brochures. In the corporate world the Org would be sitting ducks for a takeover to change the sleepy management.

  I did hear at a KM school a few years ago that the number of elders in the UK had fallen back to the same level as it was in the mid 70's , so I guess that the "35% drop" figure is accurate here as well. Most elders are getting on a bit. More noticably , I attended a MS KM school day and was surprised to see so few young ones there - mainly it was the classic middle aged or elderly MS who has reached his natural level , as it were. Bear in mind that most new elders normally come from families of existing or former elders and they see the hassle & lifestyle firsthand and most decide that it isn't for them.
• 

  ErEf

  If you are still an active or sorta-active JW, what kind of elders are in your congregation?

  High quality, medium or poor? HQ

  Over-worked or doing OK? OK

  Good speakers or poor? good

  Really helpful or non-existent? average

  Are things better or worse than they were a decade or two ago? better

  I say better because we just joined two congregations because a lot of jw's moved to other parts of the country. We have +10 elders now that is better. A few of them are 'good' bible students. The rest knows all WT popular bible texts by heart and some other are on the level of my book with bible stories. two decades ago the elderly body was just renewed with other elders because of the bossy attitude there was.

  In average it's a nice bunch we have. The former CO who visited our congregation gave some instructions to change this or that. Half year later he came back and asked why his instructions were not listened to. I heared the overseer say.. not instructions.. they were suggestions.

  Still when it comes to it they stick by the rules.. of course.