Looks Like the Andersons Lost in Court

by Beep,Beep 94 Replies latest watchtower scandals

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  hillary_step

  WTS successes in the Courts are only such due to the Legal System and its fear of opening Pandora's Box where the First Amendment and European equivalents are concerned. It has nothing to do with the WTS being correct, ethically or morally, or from them having some hot-line to heaven over the issue. They have proved themselves to be repetitive and bold liars in Courts all over the US, so they have no high moral ground here.

  If the JW's think themselves special in this regard, they should review all the cases that the Scientologists have won over similar issues that the Andersons were and as far as we know still are, seeking justice over.

  A poster like Grissom, who slips in on the oily rag of WTS counsel and ends up posting nothing of substance on this Board, makes no difference one way or the other to any of the more important issues. This is not a case of the WTS against the Worldling Apostates, it is about the WTS hiding like snivelling bullies behind the First Amendment and hoping against hope that their 'wordly' shield of protection lasts until Armageddon.

  HS
• 

  lonelysheep

  I hope Barbara gives us the official status of her case soon.

  Me, too.

  This must be an emotional time for them both.
• 

  timetochange

  HS,

  it is about the WTS hiding like snivelling bullies behind the First Amendment

  Do you believe the First Amendment or its application is in some way faulty? If so, in what way do you believe improvement can or should be made?

  Ed.
• 

  gymbob

  Timetochange~

  The first ammendment is about freedom to worship the way you want, not about protecting people who commit a crime.

  All the WT did was hide behind the law. The constitution and it's ammendments are not perfect, but they're pretty fair, and work damn well for finding justice. The society has used the law in the past, sometimes they win and sometimes they lose, this time they won. And chances are, they probably tried to settle out of court from the very beginning!
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  DanTheMan

  The smirking, arrogant devils win again. sux
• 

  hillary_step

  Ed,

  Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof; or abridging the freedom of speech, or of the press; or the right of the people peaceably to assemble, and to petition the government for a redress of grievances.

  Above is quoted the First Amendment. As you will read, it was written into the US Constitution as a noble gesture in order to protect the religious and political freedom of majority and minorities.

  The WTS, and numerous other bodies have used this statement as a shield behind which all manner of anti-social behavior, such as shunning, can take place with impunity. Despite such organizations misusing and fracturing the spirit of the First Amendment, courts and individual judges have shrunk from taking action against religions who use the Amendment as a legal loophole from which the artfully escape justice for their sins.

  I believe that a way to deal with the situation without overturning the spirit of the First Amendment iwould be to grant Government Licences to all religious bodies. These licences would ensure, by annual checks, that the religious bodies in question were not harming, or infringing upon the rights of its adherents. If they are found wanting, they should be fined, have their licences revoked, and be granted a period to reform their ways, failing this they would have all their assetts seized. In short, they should be placed under the same governmental constraints that any corporation is required to live by, and with the same accountability attached to their actions.

  Why is that we can bring to book a used car salesman who suggests that the car you are buying is more than it is, and yet religions who promise you eternal life with all that this involves, get away scott free when they cannot come up with the goods? Both are confidence tricks.

  Long live the Revolution.

  HS
• 

  Marvin Shilmer

  Time and education, these are the ultimate foes the WTS fears. This has not changed, and it will not change until the WTS, ultimately, capitulates to reality and sound thinking. Exposure is an uncomfortable embarrassment hung around the WTS’ neck in the meantime. The Anderson case has, mightily, added weight of embarrassing exposure around the neck of WTS’ dogs. The case has also added to an ever growing knowledge-base that makes education possible.

  Right now egotistical small-minded blowhards have found in the WTS a system where they can gain social traction, recognition and power. Within the WTS system these malefactors prey on fear born of ignorance and superstition. Time and education will, ultimately, end this WTS system, and the reign of these power-monger canines sporting their Watchocratic education.

  Unfortunately, tomorrow’s scoundrels are born today. For every WTS-like system that falls under its own weakness there are a hundred wannabe replacements waiting, wanting, to be like the WTS. They want worship.

  If Jesus is the truth then pursuing and putting whatever is true first and foremost is following Jesus.

  The only meaningful worship is the pursuit of facts and sound thinking, and living accordingly.

  Let knowledge and sound thinking reign.

  Marvin Shilmer
• 

  looking_glass

  Guys - I don't believe this negative ruling destroys the lower court case - it is an interlocutory appeal. Here is what Barbara said on a prior thread:

  For those who are not familiar with the events that led up to this appellate court hearing on April 14th, I filed a civil lawsuit against the above Defendants on November 7, 2002, and which my husband, Joe, joined June 2, 2003. (If you want to read details of our lawsuit, go to Randy Watters, Freeminds.Inc web site and click on BARBARA ANDERSONS ANECDOTES FROM BETHEL and then click on LEGALLY ESTABLISHING AND DEFENDING THE TRUTH.) On August 8, 2003, Defendants filed a Motion to Dismiss. On October 6, 2003, a hearing was held in Manchester, TN. To sum up the major argument of the Defendants: It is not permitted in this country for a court to inquire into church discipline for whatever reason.
  
  On November 3, 2003, the judge ruled that the Plaintiffs could go forward with the lawsuit. This meant we could progress with discovery, depositions, etc. However, our attorneys were notified on November 26, 2003 that Watchtower attorneys filed a Motion for Interlocutory Appeal, which meant they were appealing the decision of the judge. The reason for appeal was on the grounds of lack of subject matter jurisdiction with regards to the 8th cause in our action -- Wrongful Disfellowshipping. The lawyers for both sides went back to the local court in Manchester, Tennessee on February 5, 2004 to argue for and against. On March 23, 2004, our lawyers were notified that the judge, who denied the Defendants Motion to Dismiss, stayed all proceedings pending the resolution of the appellate process, which finally was addressed April 14, 2005 in the Tennessee Appellate Court in Nashville.

  Interlocutory means that the WTBTS stepped in and took a portion of the case up to the appellate court. Now that the appellate court has ruled in favor of the WTBTS, that portion of the case that was being appealed (i.e., disfellowshiping) is out of the case. Most likely this will mean that plaintiff's counsel will amend their complaint dropping that portion of their claim. However, it does not mean that the lower court action is null and void. Unless I am missing something here, this is not a huge loss, it is just a minor bump in an otherwise hilly road.

  But as was said by Blondie, let's let Barb or others who are party to the action tell us where this puts the current lower court case, my guess is that absent the "wrongful disfellowshipping" count, they are going ahead with the rest of it.
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  purplesofa

  Excellent news, but it is what was expected as the constitution guarantees the freedom of religion. I could have told her that. But she does not listen to anyone. The Bible even says that Christians are not to bring one another to court. But she did not listen to the Bible.

  You just dont get it.
• 

  wednesday

  damn appeal