by Amazing 124 Replies latest jw friends
Emo:
As you're probably aware, there is no Priesthood in Reformed Protestant Churches, as each Christian is viewed as a Priest and Joint-King, with personal access to God.
There are clergy, however, inasmuch as some individuals have the gift to teach, pastor, evangelise (including knocking on doors and preaching from street corners), etc. Most folks are pretty glad that they don't have those "gifts" though
Q:No skin lost. You're a good bloke, and I have been riding ya pretty hard. I apologise if I've caused any offense.
emo,
That is a good question and one I have been asking for years myself. I am not familiar with all the religion's thoughts on this but I grew up in the RCC and know they believe in the ordained Priesthood. And they have the Priestly and laity class of people. I cannot find biblical support for this because to me, the earthly priesthood forshadowed the coming of our Final High Priest Jesus and he has made a sacrifice once for all time for all believers. And now believers themselves are called a "royal priesthood" and the need for an earthly priesthood was done away with.
I often wondered when I was a youngster in the RCC, why they had Priests but the Apostles were not exclusively given that title of Priest in their day and did not seem to perform functions as a Priest for the rest of the church.( such as like that of the RCC Priests) I could never understand why there would be two classes of Christians in the RCC church. And I never really got a satisfying answer from any Priest in my church nor anyone else in the RCC about these concerns. Maybe someone who is a current member and more familiar with their teachings can enlighten both of us on this? Lilly
btw: How does one who believes in the need for an earthly priesthood understand all the Hebrew texts stating that Jesus is the last, greater, perfect high priest?
..and that extends to LL. It also frees me up to widen out now.
Who currently has the priesthood according to LDS theology?
1/Levitical priesthood is held by literal descendents of Levi most not aware of the right and certainly not LDS.
2/Lost tribes are supposedly led by their own prophets or will be at some future time. They will have their own internal structures. Certainly not LDS.
3/LDS claim the priesthood through direct line to Jesus Christ but note:
(Doctrine and Covenants | Section 121:34 - 37)
34 Behold, there are many called, but few are chosen. And why are they not chosen?
35 Because their hearts are set so much upon the things of this world, and aspire to the honors of men, that they do not learn this one lesson—
36 That the rights of the priesthood are inseparably connected with the powers of heaven, and that the powers of heaven cannot be controlled nor handled only upon the principles of righteousness.
37 That they may be conferred upon us, it is true; but when we undertake to cover our sins, or to gratify our pride, our vain ambition, or to exercise control or dominion or compulsion upon the souls of the children of men, in any degree of unrighteousness, behold, the heavens withdraw themselves; the Spirit of the Lord is grieved; and when it is withdrawn, Amen to the priesthood or the authority of that man.
4/LDS also recognise that God will call whom he will where and when but one identifying mark of a priesthood holder is they will recognise other priesthood holders and not reject them. The current prophet of the church is given all the keys of authority and thus would be deferred to.
When will they all be under one single organisation - when there will be no LDS or any manner of 'isms - when Jesus returns with His kingdom and recognises his own.
Q,
Thank you for that information. I have to go out for a couple of hours but I printed it out and will look it over. I will get back to you on this later. BTW: do you know all the scriptural support for the official LDS teaching on the Levitical Priesthood? If so, I would like to have it so I can look in up myself. Thanks. Have a good afternoon. Lilly
LT:
I'm ok on the transubstantiation, thanks. I have a good understanding of it. While its a bone of contention to many, I'd rather say "lets just get on and break bread!"
Well ... I still want to initiate a new thread on it, because I think it might be good for some who hold myths and misconceptions about the doctrine.
My next two threads will be on prayer to the Holy Spirit and Evolution, then on to Transubstantiation ... then I will take a break and go fishing.
Jim,
After posting the next few topics, you are going to need a few beers. I may need a couple glasses of wine myself. Lilly
Some scriptires that talk of the levites and their priesthood
(Old Testament | Deuteronomy 18:6 - 7)
6 ¶ And if a Levite come from any of thy gates out of all Israel, where he sojourned, and come with all the desire of his mind unto the place which the LORD shall choose;
7 Then he shall minister in the name of the LORD his God, as all his brethren the Levites do, which stand there before the LORD.
(Old Testament | Joshua 18:7)
7 But the Levites have no part among you; for the priesthood of the LORD is their inheritance: and Gad, and Reuben, and half the tribe of Manasseh, have received their inheritance beyond Jordan on the east, which Moses the servant of the LORD gave them.
Two different orders existed at the time of Christ - both were Gods but one represented the outward ordinances that have no saving power but were/are required while the other represents the saving power of Christ - the power wherby the City of Enoch became perfected.
(New Testament | Hebrews 7:11)
11 If therefore perfection were by the Levitical priesthood, (for under it the people received the law,) what further need was there that another priest should rise after the order of Melchisedec, and not be called after the order of Aaron?
Authority of the kingdom can be given.
(New Testament | Matthew 16:18 - 19)
18 And I say also unto thee, That thou art Peter, and upon this rock I will build my church; and the gates of hell shall not prevail against it.
19 And I will give unto thee the keys of the kingdom of heaven: and whatsoever thou shalt bind on earth shall be bound in heaven: and whatsoever thou shalt loose on earth shall be loosed in heaven.
God's people are always referred to as a kingdom of priests or priesthood.
(Old Testament | Exodus 19:5 - 6)
5 Now therefore, if ye will obey my voice indeed, and keep my covenant, then ye shall be a peculiar treasure unto me above all people: for all the earth is mine:
6 And ye shall be unto me a kingdom of priests, and an holy nation. These are the words which thou shalt speak unto the children of Israel.
(New Testament | 1 Peter 2:9)
9 But ye are a chosen generation, a royal priesthood, an holy nation, a peculiar people; that ye should shew forth the praises of him who hath called you out of darkness into his marvellous light:
Q,
I am sorry I did not get back to you right away. I had something to do with my kids. I looked thru your notes about the Levitical Priesthood and Melchizedek. I would like to make these few points. Sorry in advance if this is long, I will try to explain why I think your reasoning about the priesthood is flawed in as simple a way I can. I will focus mostly on Hebrews chapter 7, please get out your bible to follow along with this.
Melchizedek is mentioned the first time in Genesis chapter 14:17-20. Here he meets with Abraham and Abraham gives Melchizedek gifts. In the OT there were Kings and there was the Priesthood, but here in Genesis we have Melchizedek who is both King and Priest. Melchizedek is the "type" for Jesus Christ, who will be King and Priest for the people. That is why Jesus is called by the author of Hebrews the Priest in the "order of Melchizedek".
By Abraham giving gifts to Melchizedek, he was showing Melchizedeks superiority to himself. In Hebrews 7:8-10, it is showing that since the Tribe of Levi was "in" Abraham, The Levitical Priesthood was also acknowleging the superiority of Melchizedek. Therefore this is showing that Melchizedek's priesthood is greater than the one descending from Abraham. When the Messiah came, his Priesthood superceded the Levitical Priesthood.
Hebrews 7:11 shows that God never planned the Levitical Priesthood to be permanent. Nor does he plan to ever restore it. God, when our Messiah came, totally set aside the Old Testament way of his people approaching him. See also verses 12,18,19a
Hebrews 7:19,22 shows that thru Jesus, God has now provided us a better way to approach him. Jesus will never die and will never need to be replaced by anyone - verse 23.
verse 25 - Jesus will hold his priesthood permanently and is the only one that can save us completely.
verse 27 - Jesus sacrifice is better than any animal sacrifices. The animal sacrifices pointed to the need of a new better sacrifice and was set in place temporarily. But God knew this type of sacrifice could never wash away man's sin completely. But Jesus sacrifice can. And Jesus sacrifice only has to be given once for all time and not over and over like animal sacrifices had to.
God's new arrangement is for us to go thru his Son, our High Priest and we can approach him directly now. We can also approach him any time day or night, no matter where we are. This is the new, better way. There is no more need for the human priesthood.
I want to make one point about your using a verse in Matthew 22:
About Matthew 22 - the parable of the wedding banquet
this parable is about being invited into God's heavenly kingdom and not into a Priesthood. In verse 22:14 it says "many are called but few are chosen". this statement is talking about the natural Jews and how many were called to accept the invitation to the kingdom but refused because they would not accept Christ. Thus many of them were called or "invited" but few believed and were ultimately chosen. Again, this is not an invitation to a preisthood but invitation to the heavenly kingdom as heirs with Christ.
Lilly
Hey Jim old Friend!
: It's is truly good to see you again ... now, you have work to do to turn me back into an agnostic again. See what happens while you are away on the mountain carving out new commandments ... we take up religion ... and I am ready to be a Catholic priest.
I don't want to turn you into anything. I want you to find happiness and continued good health, you stupid freaking moron who thinks that religion can give it to you! You freaking MORON!
Just joking, Jim. You are my friend and I only wish the best for you, even if you think some other's belief systems are somehow mystically and inately better than your own morals and ethics which the Creator gave you at birth. :)
Farkel
