France what did come of it ? I am amazed no info? Must not be good if the society isn't talking.
I mean for the society.
France what did come of it ?
by 5go 11 Replies latest watchtower scandals
-
-
SirNose586
Don't they owe a bunch in taxes? I haven't heard anything about France in quite some time, either...
-
5go
Here what wikipedia says. Oh by the way I started the contravercies page I feel so good it's still there.
[ edit ] France
In France, a number of court cases have involved Jehovah Witnesses and their organizations, especially on the question of their refusing blood transfusions to minor patients. These questions had far-reaching legal implications regarding the tax status of their organizations.
[ edit ] Cases essentially related to the Witnesses' attitude on blood transfusions
The French population generally considers that refusing blood transfusions on grounds of religious beliefs is excessive and that refusing them for minor children is abusive and even criminal, and this is reflected in the attitude of the government and the legal system.
The Association Les Témoins de Jéhovah, a not-for-profit religious association used by Jehovah's Witnesses in France, was denied tax-exempt status for certain taxes by the French tax authorities. Religion-supporting organizations (associations cultuelles) in France can ask to be exempted from a number of taxes, including taxes on donations, as long as their purpose is solely to organize religious worship and they do not infringe on public order. The reasons for this denial were stated:
- The association of Jehovah's Witnesses forbids its members to defend the nation, to take part in public life, to give blood transfusions to their minor children and that the parliamentary commission on cults has listed them as a cult which can disturb public order. [2]
The list alluded to as final argument is given in the report (unofficial translation) from a 1996 Parliamentary Commission on Cults; [3] however, reports such as this carry no legal or regulatory force.
On October 5, 2004, the Court of Cassation, which is the highest court in France for cases outside of administrative law, made public a decision in the case of Association Les Témoins de Jéhovah v. Direction des Services Fiscaux which rejected the Witnesses' recourse against taxation at 60 percent of the value of some of their contributions, which the fiscal services assimilated to a legal category of donations close to that of inheritance and subject to the same taxes between non-parents (text of the ruling, in legal French). The amount involved in the controversy could exceed $28 million (U.S.). According to Watch Tower Bible and Tract Society representatives, this includes a 60% tax on contributions used to support a vast humanitarian relief effort to Rwanda in 1994. [4] Roughly speaking French law makes a clear distinction between normal non-profit associations (which are not tax-exempt for the above category of donations), non-profit associations of public usefulness (whose donations are tax exempt; this is the legal form normally used for associations engaging in humanitarian aid), and associations supporting religious activities (whose donations are tax exempt). Humanitarian aid is not considered support of religious activities and thus, accordingly, is not considered to be tax-exempt under the rules governing associations supporting religious activities; the usual solution is to found a separate association devoted to humanitarian aid, which will operate under the tax rules pertaining to associations devoted to humanitarian aid; it may then be possible to have it declared of public usefulness. To summarize the ruling, the fiscal services could legally tax the associations of the Witnesses if they received donations in the form of dons gratuits and they were not recognized as associations cultuelles.
However, the Conseil d'État , the supreme court for administrative matters, ruled that denying the statute of association cultuelle on grounds of accusations of infringement of public order was illegal unless substantiated by actual proofs of that infringement. For instance, a legal reason for this denial could be that the association incited to felonies such as failing to assist a person in danger; but mere considerations that the doctrine of the association could lead to such incitations were insufficient (court case; translation).
Other court cases have concerned the right for a patient, or of a minor patient's legal guardians, to refuse medical treatment even in case of lethal consequences should the treatment not be accepted. For instance, in a 2001 court case, doctors at a French public hospital that had given blood products to a patient with an acute renal insufficiency, in clear danger of death, were found not to have committed a mistake of a nature to involve the responsibility of the State (communiqué, English translation). The commentary of the Council, however, was that there does not exist, for the doctor, an abstract and unalterable hierarchy between the obligation to treat the patient, and that to respect the will of the patient; that is, doctors, when faced with the question of whether to treat a patient against his will, do not have a legally predefined obligation to treat the patient, nor do they have a legally predefined obligation to abide by his or her wishes.
-
Stephanus
Surprisingly, France hasn't surrendered, yet!
-
Gill
You should hear my mum and dad on the subject of France and how badly they have treated 'da brudders' and how 'Jehoopla is gonna get dem Frenchies when the big A hits!'
The French government is not daft. It knows a cult when it sees one. If it walks like a cult and talks like a cult then ooooh la la, it is a cult! Tax it to 'ell and back!!!
Go France! Kick some Watchtower bootie!!!
-
Narkissos
The taxation case is still pending before the European Court of Human Rights afaik.
http://www.state.gov/g/drl/rls/irf/2006/71380.htm
I wouldn't be surprised if it overrules French justice though...
Lately the French WT Branch issued official protests just because JWs were mentioned in a parliamentary survey/report on cults...
http://www.temoinsdejehovah.org/informations/commission3/Plaquette/PlaquetteLaCible.pdf
The right-wing candidate to next spring's presidential election has been known (especially as the Minister of Interior, in charge of religious issues) to be much more lenient to "cults" than Chirac for instance. Also much more American-friendly (unsurprisingly).
-
Gill
Narkissos - Since when did the French Government do as it was told?
There are no votes to be gained in supporting Jehovah's Witnesses!
-
LittleToe
There are no votes to be gained in supporting Jehovah's Witnesses!
This made me grin. Ironic, isn't it?
-
Narkissos
Since when did the French Government do as it was told?
Since France signed European treaties...
There are no votes to be gained in supporting Jehovah's Witnesses!
That's true -- one amusing story was in the last round of the 1981 elections, with Giscard d'Estaing (right) against Mitterrand (left). Giscard's party called the French Bethel asking for support, in view of the fact that Giscard had previously authorised the free publishing of the Watchtower, which had been previously banned by De Gaulle and had only been available to the Witnesses as an "Interior Bulletin" since. Only then did they find out that JWs do not vote... Mitterrand won, to the obvious dismay of the Branch Committee
Otoh there is a lot to gain from Uncle Sam's good grades.
-
Paralipomenon
If they were smart, they could use this as an excuse to toss out the blood doctrine.
Dear Brothers,
By now many of you have heard of the hardships being endured by our brothers and sisters in France. In October of 2004 Satan hardened the hearts of the judges in France's Supreme court (Court of Cassation) denying God's earthly organization the rights offered to organizations of Christendom, thusly, the freedom to use the donations to the Worldwide Work in a charitable manner to assist all peoples during times of distress such as natural disasters and to further the Christian preaching work.
This double standard would impose taxes on the free donations of not only faithful members, but also of those given from concerned people in the door to door ministry. These taxes would place an undue hardship on the brothers in France as well as around the world.
The "reasoning" given by the court is that Jehovah's Witnesses do not respect life by our refusal of blood transfusions. As stated by the laws pertaining to the criteria for a non-profit organization, they are using a obscure clause to classify our dedication to Jehovah in keeping our bodies pure as fanatical behavior.
We have attempted to minister and reason with the French officials but Satan has blinded their eyes and made them deaf.
As such we have no choice but to adapt our presentation of our stance on blood transfusions. Effective immediately we are discontinuing the printing of the Medical Directive and disbanding the Medical Liaison Committee. Does this mean that we are changing our belief on the sanctity of blood? To the contrary, now, more than ever we must keep up the "fine fight of the faith" and remain true to Jah.
This decision to accept or decline a blood transfusion will now be an individual conscience matter. We have plenty of spiritual food that discusses this matter. (ref WTXX, WTXX, etc ad nauseum) Any true Christian faced with this great decision can reflect on the wise council provided and through prayer make a decision that will allow them to stand clean before Jehovah.
This minor change will once again release our brothers in France from their "spiritual bondage" and allow the preaching work to once more go forward, unhindered in this time of the end.
Warm Christian Love,
Your Cult Leaders