Elder quits meetings
by buffalosrfree 45 Replies latest jw friends
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Paralipomenon
I would respectfully disagree with the popular opinion here. If someone leaves the witnesses and doesn't maintain a belief in God is no reason to pity them.
They have freed their minds and feel happy about it. People's relationship with their God is personal. Wishing others to feel the same way you do, to me, is only a side step away from the Watchtower's thinking.
I applaud anyone that starts thinking for themselves and respect whatever choice they make. People can be good and moral without the bible and without a belief in God. -
needproof
Well said Paralipomenon
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IsaacJS2
I'm with the atheist types on this one...since I am one. We hear the pitying, "Bad-Religious-Experience" theory of atheism all the time and some of us get a little tired of it. Some of us even pity you at times. Then I remember how insulting that is and I snap myself out of it.
Not trying to pick a fight here, but give us a break, guys. I try not to get overly full of myself these days, or my reasons for disbelieving, because I'm humble enough to know I could always be wrong. But believe it or not, so could you. That's the difference between what you know and what you think is true.
Surely you realize that part of being a JW is looking down on everybody that disagrees with you and indulging in the sense that you're oh-so-right, and everyong else is just so miserably misguided and sad. They're up there, you see, while we're down here to be pitied. That's the ego half of being in the WT. This sort of stuff smacks of that to me. It's very condescending and it makes it a lot harder for us to get along. And I really, truly want us to get along. I really, really do.
I'm not trying to pick on you. Not at all. But the superior-thing is tiresome and I'm asking you not to put yourselves above us. Please respect us enough not to treat us that way.
Pretty please?
IsaacJ
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needproof
Isaac,
Imagine how I felt when a 'born again' believer threatened me with 'If you are right, and I am wrong, then thats ok, I dont lose anything. But if I am right, and you are wrong, then you are going to hell and I am getting eternal life'
Sickening, smarmy Born Again mentality.
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IsaacJS2
Sorry if I made anyone mad. I don't want to get myself tossed on the fringes of this forum like I have elsewhere. But this sad, "atheists are just so blind and wrong" business is just too familiar. Very WT-esque.
Imagine the last time a former WT friend came by to preach at you and just shook their head pityingly when you didn't "get" their message of hope, and maybe you'll know what I mean. Just because they believe their brand of "truth" didn't make it true. Didn't that offend you? To assume otherwise is very egotistical. Please don't be like them.
If you're going to talk down to us like this, or about us, maybe you should note that in the thread somehow so we won't read it. I'd rather not even know about it. Meanwhile, I'll try not to look down on you. Please, let's just be equals in this big old world of ours.
IsaacJ
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xjwms
All I ever ask for is one truth.
Gemme just one, ... it was'nt 1914, not even 1975, was it the generation? no not that one...
There was never any TRUTH.
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mouthy
...which of course is just your opinion! Yes it is just MY opinion. But the differance is I am doing as YOU are!!! "thinking for ourselves "And which ever of us is WRONG YOU or ME!! we will find out in the end I believe. I dont feel pity for any that dont believe I just cannot understand ..... I do have peace now...As a JW I never felt I did enough for GOd,,,, as a Christian I dont really have to do anything HE did it all in MY opinion. Of course we shouldnt fight about our differance. WE ARE FREE!!!!!! What is the one thing I am very grateful for --- weather you believe or dont you must admit it is nice to lay in bed Sat morning & know your not required to go banging on doors telling folks they are WRONG!!!!! So dont us let us try to convince others on here they are wrong. MY opinion is .... Jesus died for GRACE GOUGH because I was such a sinner ( aint gonna tell you it all you -aint got time )But when I asked HIM to come into MY life & be MY saviour -my life has been MUCH easier... still have pain , heart aches ( cos I lost my kids in death, another to the wtower,)but that was only going to be gone when I see the face of Jesus.....No pain, No tears, No suffering,Oh well you may NOW chuck your rocks
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IsaacJS2
Needproof,
Yeah, I know exactly what you mean. I really hope this forum won't go that way. I've seen other forums with atheists and believers mixed, and some on both sides fell into that ego trap. Sooner or later such forums turn into ugly places. I'll leave if it goes that way.
I had a bit of that problem in me when I first went all atheist. Didn't even know it--that's how subtle it can be. Both sides can climb into our ivory towers to look down on all the rabble if we get too confident. I so hope this forum isn't like that. I hope our egos never get so big.
If the thread gets mean because of this, I will probably stop reading it. Just so everyone knows if I don't respond to any flames aimed our way. But I hope we're all bigger than that.
IsaacJ
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Confession
I appreciate Isaac's words. A major part of religious institutional manipulation (as practiced by the JWs and others) is to shame others into believing what you believe.
To me it's a comforting thought that the Bible might be God's inspired word--and that Jesus Christ might be the way to Him. It also leaves me in a good position to espouse such--so that I may attempt to prove to JWs that leaving their organization does NOT mean leaving "Christianity" as so many of them think. But if honesty is to lead me somewhere, let it not be into another mindset that is merely an improved, less restrictive form of social pressure. If I am to be totally honest, I have to express that I am not at all convinced that the Bible is what I thought it to be. Nor am I convinced that Jesus is what I thought he might be.
I still believe in God, I suppose, for all the reasons I used to as a JW. I simply can't grasp the idea that all we see just happened without some type of intelligent direction. Perhaps my mind is just too limited to imagine such a thing.
I think it is a good thing when people have a faith. But for some of us, upon awakening, we found no baby in the basin. Just bathwater.
I will remain open to others' thoughts and expressions, and one day I may find what I need to believe more. But when others express pity, sadness or utilize shame, I will take note and most likely avoid them.