When Christians experience the "power of the Christ" ...

by ithinkisee 21 Replies latest jw experiences

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  Narkissos

  Great points.

  When I was heading out of the WT, I realised that the "music" I most resonated to in the NT I could also hear in the most unexpected places -- buddhist or taoist texts, secular poetry and novels... and I also became extraordinarily wary of jumping from wordless "experience" (or, more exactly, experience on the border of language) to doctrinal conclusions (or rationalisations). This, to me, was the end of binary logic (A is right => non-A is wrong), at least in this (non-)realm.

  Whether they realise it or not, it certainly takes an imaginary leap for believers to think that their "experience" proves the validity of their particular doctrine (the cultural setting where the "experience" took place). But (and here's my reservation) it takes a similar (or symmetrical) imaginary leap to posit the identity of all similar experiences beyond doctrines.

  Docta ignorantia, unsuperable...

  One could suggest that the "spiritual danger" of having many paths available (in a multicultural society, as opposed to the Middle-Ages for instance) is to really follow none thoroughly. But not choosing is a path of its own, too.
• 

  LittleToe

  Didier:You make some astute observations, especially in regards to the leaps required for either conclusion.

  I would tend to throw into the melting pot the socio-demographic prediliction to a particular religious framework. In the post-modern age perhaps there is a new materialist/humanist religion erupting complete with its own ecstatic experiences. History will bear testimony to whether or not it filled the vacuum left by deposed superstitions and/or perhaps created its own!

  ITIS:
  Having experienced both, I found it far more powerful and poignant in the context of Christ. I can't even begin to comment on why that should be the case, outside of a theological explanation, but simply offer it as an observation.
• 

  RAF

  wow ... Ithinkisee ...

  you are actually christian from your heart ... (it's all about inner peace - nothing to fear even if everything can happen) ... you can feel wathever (emptiness, losing controle on anything... we're not going to change the world but we are good actors and good interpretors from just listinening to it) but nothing is more important than just meditating on things to finally accepte to be a part of the whole thing and experiencing our own path and life with compassion for others and ourself.

  Nice !!!
• 

  RAF

  general feeling of peace and acceptance of what is and is not in my power to accomplish

  I mean : that's the power of Christ (whatever religion you feel to be in) as it is not a question of religion but a question of spirit !!!
• 

  lonelysheep

  Thanks for the video, Issac.

  Being a healthy secularist, to me, means accepting the fact that you will never have all the answers. If you don't believe in God or an afterlife, then there's no glorious place with answers you expect to go to. It also means you have to try to do the best you can at figuring stuff out anyway.

  This is my thinking, too.
• 

  Double Edge

  But I do have a problem when these Christian parents tell their kids that unless they accept Jesus as their lord and savior they will burn in hell. To put that sort of fear into a child about a concept that is completely unproven, and in fact most evidence points to the contrary - really angers me. And don't tell me that is not how Christian children are raised, because I have heard it with my own ears.

  I've heard that from my own ears too, however I don't think most Christians raise their children that way.....I wasn't raised that way, nor would I even begin to say something to my child about "hell" and who goes "there". Christians, as a whole, are more educated than they were a generation or two ago and the same old "hell, fire and brimestone" sermons don't cut it anymore. The concept of that type of hell as punishment can not be proven scripturally and there is too much evidence historically to prove it's evolution as a concept in the early Catholic church.

  Good post, I too have taken to meditating in the morning.....works for me.
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  ithinkisee

  Wow, I popped in quickly to BTTT this thread thinking no one would respond.

  I don't have time to comment now, but I will tonight.

  THanks,

  -ithinkisee
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  tetrapod.sapien

  ya man, nice write up.

  i believe that christ mind is the same as buddha mind. one's pineal gland and serotonin receptors are also implicated. not that this cheapens the experience. i don't see a christ or a buddha having problems with understanding the experience. on the contrary. it's empowering, spiritually, to understand our nature physically.

  richard bucke drew some interesting parallels between christ consciousness and buddha consciousness.

  it's good you are meditating man. it's quite the direct experience. so different from the mind states we experienced as witnesses.

  tetra
• 

  Madame Quixote

  I think practicing meditation (even prayer) can be an uplifting experience; biofeedback studies show it and my personal experience with it has been quite illuminating.

  It's interesting to note that many religious people assume that when others (not of their own faith) have such "spiritual" experiences, they typically attribute the other's experience to emotionalism, while attributing their own as either the one truly spiritual experience (or more spiritual). Some religious writing warns people against confusing emotionalism with spiritualism.

  I think it's all based on biological factors. If you believe it - (prayer, meditation, biofeedback, whatever) -works, then it does work; and if you actually accept a deity or faith to have caused it (the good feeling or sense of peace and wonder and bliss) - why question your personal experience?

  It's much easier (and natural?) to question/doubt the validity of the other's experience and belief. I think Buddhists are more often the exception to that behvior/attitude because their philosophy is a bit more encompassing; they tend to 'draw a more inclusive circle than most (western) religions do; western religion tends to be exclusive and thus experiences of its particular brand of "spirituality"/oneness also tend to be interpreted in that same kind of exclusive way.

  In any event, atheists, agnostics, and true belivers all can experience the wonder and bliss of the universe and the wonder of dew drops on daffodils; they just interpret the experience differently.
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  tetrapod.sapien

  hi LT,

  I would tend to throw into the melting pot the socio-demographic prediliction to a particular religious framework. In the post-modern age perhaps there is a new materialist/humanist religion erupting complete with its own ecstatic experiences.

  interesting thought. thought a similar one myself.

  ecstacy is one thing i thought for a while was resereved for "magical thinkers". lol ;) - but one day i started wondering what the buddha meant when it is said that he fixed his mind upon the "chain of causation" under the bodhi tree, and is it possible to extend such concepts? and this is why i feel that materialistic concepts, like evolution, aid in the awakening of the individual. not that the chain of causation is limited to biology of course. but as a way of understanding the nature of the world, and by extension ourselves. ecstacy comes when the leap is made from language based duality to cosmic oneness along the chain of causation, as an example of method or path. if meditation on something material like biology leads one down a path to the leaping point out of biology, and a sense of cessation of suffering comes of it, and ecstacy follows, then we might be comparing apples to apples.

  as far as filling the vacuum, i am of the bent that no group of people, materialistic or religious, is going to fill it. imo, the individual, itself, fills it in awakening. if it's an aid to the group evolution, then it is by example to each individual of their own potential. which is to say that many people have already been an example. some cultures preserve the stories of some individuals better than others.

  i guess ultimately i see people like jesus and gautama as humans who finally understood the "being" part of "human being". from human bean, to human being. what a jump! lol. ;)

  tetra (of the 'melatonin, serotonin, NN-DMT' class)