Hey, wait a minute! The DF'd have returned to their "low sink of debauchery" ? Why didn't somebody tell me? I might want to get into a low sink of debauchery but no one has ever asked me.
No prayer for disfellowshipped ones
by LexWatson 21 Replies latest jw friends
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Honesty
I can count the times JW's in "Good Standing" were just mentioned in prayers at the kingdumb hell on one hand.
God forbid that a DF'd person's name be even mentioned from the platform except for the BIG announcement on Thursday night's TMS/Service Meeting.
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Honesty
Tom, your prayer is exactly what DF'd JW's need.
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Synergy
Tom I LOVE that prayer! What a great way to express it. God likes humor as much as the rest of us. Thanks for that.
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Abandoned
OK, now I'm gonna
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lost&found
Hey there all you westerners. I noticed that this website has no input from Africa so here I am......Just in case y'all thought this only happened up there well this ring has netted many of us. I agree with your comments that had you rec'd all the love etc you would probably be in a whole diff place.Howevr I quite like the place I am in now and i feel like I lost a whole section of my life while I was walking the streets knocking on peoples doors. I experienced the same after being Df'd it was mad although my family were never hostile the friends I had who by the way were all JW's were suddenly lost to me. My best friend whom I had known since I was born poitn blank refused to even say hello to me. Anyway I have found a whole new set of friends and you know what I have never seen a more hypocritical bunch than those people. I meet some of them in places they "shouldnt be " Like watching the Da vinci code ......well. Anyway glad to be in touch with others in the same predicament ............dont know if we must even call it that. Dont think so ....
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tijkmo
They would be puzzled, troubled, even stumbled if they were to hear someone praying publicly about the erring one.
the only reason they would be troubled is that they have been lied to about only unrepentant people getting df-ed
so sure why would anyone want to pray for an unrepentant person..(according to them)
it would be interesting for someone to pray from the platform for a df person and to include in the prayer forgiveness for the imperfect elders who made the wrong decision in the first place.
although frankly what would be the point....it's not like god would be listening anyway
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carla
Are they allowed to pray for non jw's?
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JamieL
I don't know what everyone elses congregation was like but in ours it was common to pray with anyone who was non-jw who asked you to pray for them or with them and it was encouraged to pray for those who didn't "have the truth" not saying anything about Jws doing tings right or wrong just saying.
And of course they prayed for individuals by name, whenever someone was sick, in the hospital, or even when ones were going thru trials and tribulations. I swear, I'd like to go to some of these congos some mention, I just can't imagine being so incentive, I mean I was DFd for good reason, I did something I knew perfeclty well was not right and then I hid it, and now it's really hard on me, beyond what I should have to be. But it's not as though anyone hated me, sure the usual shunning, but not from my family or select friends.
Someone mentioned they could count on 1 hand the number of times a public prayer mentioned someone by name. I thought they were joking, I guess it just was not that way in my congo or any congo I visited. Oh well, anyway. I have seen a lot of things that have changed on many stances in recent years, I'm not excusing anything, but it's good to see some progress.
1) Attitude towards non-witnesses, to me it was obvious in the publications recently that JWs are not to judge anyone non-JW as they simply cannot judge them (I know I know DFing is conisdered judging, but no one can deny it was a practice in the 1st century to protect the congregation, Paul certainly adhered to it). Even while I've been DFd I saw it discussed on the bookstudy that anyone person you see on the street could certainly be in the new system and you might not expect it, but a person you expect to be there (a fellow JW) might not be.
2) Attitude towards schooling, and various aspects of school life. When I was a teenager a few years ago I was allowed to play sports, participate in all sorts of activities in school. The elders only ever talked to me once to see if I was pursuing this as a serious career option, which I wasn't so it was not a problem. Also it has become apparent to many that some form of education is needed in these days to even be a pioneer, so schooling has opened up.
3) A recent article on DFing was very explicit about putting time restrictions, or not looking at the persons heart when they are asking for forgiveness (again, not many elders apply this very well, or at all in my experience, but it is in the watchtower).
4) Policies have changed about child abuse (mainly cause they had to in light of Bill Bowen in 2002, and even then they are still facing serious letigation, however, it appears as though the society may dissociate themselves from the congo and say policies were in place and individual elders acted without societies approval, and thus the individual elders would be personally liable and would be sued. Man, those are some tricky witnesses)
5) Ministry work. A lot has changed in this aspect to make it more respectful to in the community and not like it used to be. Shouting with plackards or putting a foot in someones door to take command of a conversation. Times change and being brazen is no longer needed to carry on a conversation with someone.
Anyway, say what we will about changing policies just as a cover, or saying it's too little too late (I would know in my case from Child Abuse). At least there is an attempt to change somethings. I would want that of say my government, if there was a problem to speak out about it and have it changed. A lot of religions will never admit to being wrong about anything (JW included, like 1914, or NGO, etc). LIke say Catholicism apologizing for the Spanish Inquisition 500 years later? Get real.
And it does disgruntle me the way being wrong is termed "new light" and their is a slickster way of trying to say well we were not wrong but we just didn't know the right thing yet. It would be especially imperitive to me to apologize for the obscene lack of protection to small children. For instance the one man that confessed to molesting 28-42 different witness girls and it was known, he had told the elders before, and wasn't reported to the authorities? Let alone put out of the congregation. How is that not illegal? It's one thing to not report an accusation (as it's not rquired by law in some places) but to not report a confession of such. I would spit in those elders faces if I ever met one.
But I'm not sure what to do. Blame the men at the top? Blame the men running the congo? Accept that all human led organizations are like this? Or be the best christian I can be....hmmm. Not sure.
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Abandoned
Even while I've been DFd I saw it discussed on the bookstudy that anyone person you see on the street could certainly be in the new system and you might not expect it, but a person you expect to be there (a fellow JW) might not be.
Here's a classic example of why many of us consider Jehovah's Witnesses to be a mind-control cult. What really is the message here? Isn't the message that you have no reason to sincerely feel safe in the organization? Anyone could be the next to fall. It could happen to the brother who was in for sixty years, saving people every day, doing everything he could to say thank you to Jehovah, and he could be gone in an instant. What does that say about Jehovah's loyalty?
The messages that the Jehovah's Witness organization sends out is to keep people uneasy. Uneasy people don't look at themselves in detail and make positive changes. They just try to limit the amount of uneasiness or distract themselves in other ways. This message, and many other common messages among what the Jehovah's Witnesses teach slyly make God out to be some kind of insecure and vengeful monster. These messages don't honor God or draw people to him at all.