~Hope for Satan & everyone?~

by FlyingHighNow 39 Replies latest watchtower beliefs

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  FlyingHighNow

  One thing that I've thought a lot about would probably make some people very mad at me, but one of the coolest things I can imagine seeing would be Hitler truly being sorry for what he did and a million jews sincerely forgiving him. And then, all of them, along with all of us too, living together forever. Of course this makes me an apostate. HA HA HA!

  I think the page mentions Hitler as an example. I am reading the most awesome book on this subject. It's called If Grace Is True: Why God Will Save Every Person. It's by two Quaker Ministers that came to embrace Universalism. They mention Hitler as well.

  They point out that Peter was given the vision of the sheet with unclean animals and told to eat them. He was also challenged by God to minister to Gentiles. This went against everything he was taught from boyhood, that only Jews would receive salvation. But of course Abraham had been told his seed would bless all mankind, too. It was an adjustment for Peter to embrace this change of thinking. The authors compare their own changes to those of Peter.
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  FlyingHighNow

  BTTT
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  JamesThomas

  A truly all-embracing God has a beautiful ring of truth to it; for certainly the Source and Sustenance of an infinite universe must be greater still.

  The next step is to stop limiting the Divine completely, by not reducing it down to something so small as to be absent.

  If there truly is That which has no beginning and no end, what does that make you? Just beneath and closer than everything you believe yourself to be, what are you really?

  What truly looks out your eyes?

  

  j
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  Narkissos

  When I stepped out of the WT I was, basically, a universalist, even though I hardly knew the label. I had it stuck on my forehead when I went to the theological college (an Evangelical, Calvinist one where universalism was the most dreaded heresy, as I soon realised). Intuitively yet consistently I was attracted to those theologians who had shown a similar concern, in widely different systems of thought (Origen, Karl Barth, Paul Tillich or Karl Rahner, for instance).

  Looking back, I think this universalistic concern was more important to me than soteriology and even theism. There is more to it than "salvation" or "reconciliation". It is about the open, untotalisable, yet ever-embracing reality from which nobody, not even "God," can cut anything off -- not a second, not a pebble.

  There is more to theology than ontology but there cannot be less.
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  greendawn

  That idea is too sentimental and over-idealised. The fallen angels always have the opportunity to repent but never take advantage of it. Above all let's not forget that they have been causing tremendous suffering over millenia to mankind and they will ultimately have to pay for it. Their final destination is called: "the lake of fire and sulphur" there they will suffer retribution for a long time before their execution. Not God's fault however they very stubbornly opted for that outcome, their victims need to be vindicated and compensated. Babylon the Great their prime collaborator and traitor of mankind will have a similar fate.
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  kid-A

  Here's a simple idea:

  How about accepting the ephemeral nature of human existence? Lose your fear of fleeting mortality. Live each moment to its maximum potential. Do something incredible with THIS LIFE rather than worrying about some mythical nether-world dreamed up by ancient mystics thousands of years ago in the desert?

  What continues to mystify me is why believers must interject supernatural hoopla into the simplicity of life. Everything you NEED is already there INSIDE you and until you stop looking beyond your own inner being for strength and power, you will be lost within a silly, primordial spirit world, unable to realize your full HUMAN potential.

  The only salvation you or anyone else needs is salvation from FEAR and SUPERSTITION. Let the gods die...only then will you be born.....
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  FlyingHighNow

  The fallen angels always have the opportunity to repent but never take advantage of it.

  No one repents until they are ready. And how long does one have to pay for making others suffer before it becomes over-kill? The point is that good conquers evil. Eventually, everything is drawn back to LOVE. And God is love. So there won't be any cemeteries with dead people or evil spirits and people locked away somewhere being tortured to make a pock on the universe, Good will have triumphed, once and for all. I don't cling to the idea that someone has to be punished forever for things to be just. Why do you? Someone put that idea in your head maybe?

  Kid-A, that's just sad. But whatever keeps your ship afloat, more power to it. I see magic everywhere, everyday, and I live a fuller life because of it. The world is full of miraculous things and events, you only need to open your eyes. You don't need to believe in anything. It's not necessary. God loves you anyway. You'll figure this out eventually. Maybe not here on earth, but you'll figure it out. Look me up. I can't wait to see the huge smile on your face when you do. Do you have children, by the way?
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  onacruse

  When Thangorodrim was broken and Morgoth overthrown, Sauron put on his fair hue again and did obeisance to Eonwe, the herald of Manwe, and abjured all his evil deeds. And some hold that this was not at first falsely done, but that Sauron in truth repented, if only out of fear, being dismayed at the fall of Morgoth and the great wrath of the Lords of the West. But it was not within the power of Eonwe to pardon those of his own order, and he commanded Sauron to return to Aman and there receive the judgment of Manwe. Then Sauron was ashamed, and he was unwilling to return in humiliation and to receive from the Valar a sentence, it might be, of long servitude in proof of his good faith; for under Morgoth his power had been great.

  Russell taught that the 'angels who sinned' were merely participating in an aspect of the Divine Plan, an aspect that was intended for the good of humanity: an attempt to rescue humanity from the sin into which they had fallen, by introducing superior genetic 'seed.' That abortive attempt, well-intentioned though it was, demonstrated to them that their efforts were doomed to failure, being outside of God's Plan. Therefore, they would learn (have learned) that God's Way is the best Way, have repented, and have been waiting for their full restoration to God's favor. Thus too even with Adam and Eve. I'm not sure about Satan, but I think he too was included in this Grand Scenario.

  However, the above passage from The Silmarilion suggests the much more common anticipation, based on human behavior, that "once bad, always bad."
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  FlyingHighNow

  However, the above passage from The Silmarilion suggests the much more common anticipation, based on human behavior, that "once bad, always bad."

  How hopelessly sad.
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  choosing life

  FlyingHighNow,

  Thanks for the link. I have always been attracted to universal salvation. When I read the scripture in the Bible that says God wants everyone to be saved, I have always thought that God could certainly accomplish just that. There is a lot of food for thought there.

  Sincerely,Choosing Life