avidbiblereader & narkissos, thanks for the outline you gave. it will be one of my source material. heres the material im supposed to use, rs p.34 1-p36 1: Some identifying marks of apostates— They seek to make others their followers, thus causing sectarian divisions Acts 20:30: “From among you yourselves men will rise and speak twisted things to draw away the disciples after themselves.” 2 Pet. 2:1, 3: “There will also be false teachers among you. These very ones will quietly bring in destructive sects and will disown even the owner that bought them . . . Also, with covetousness they will exploit you with counterfeit words.” They may profess to believe in Christ but treat lightly the preaching and teaching work he assigned to his followers Luke 6:46: “Why, then, do you call me ‘Lord! Lord!’ but do not do the things I say?” Matt. 28:19, 20: “Go therefore and make disciples of people of all the nations, baptizing them . . . teaching them to observe all the things I have commanded you.” Matt. 24:14: “This good news of the kingdom will be preached in all the inhabited earth for a witness to all the nations; and then the end will come.” They may claim to serve God but reject his representatives, his visible organization Jude 8, 11: “These men, too, indulging in dreams, are defiling the flesh and disregarding lordship and speaking abusively of glorious ones. Too bad for them, because they . . . have perished in the rebellious talk of Korah!” Num. 16:1-3, 11, 19-21: “Korah . . . proceeded to get up, together with . . . two hundred and fifty men of the sons of Israel, chieftains of the assembly . . . So they congregated themselves against Moses and Aaron and said to them: ‘That is enough of you, because the whole assembly are all of them holy and Jehovah is in their midst. Why, then, should you lift yourselves up above the congregation of Jehovah?’ . . . [Moses said:] ‘You and all your assembly who are gathering together are against Jehovah. As for Aaron, what is he that you men should murmur against him?’ When Korah got all the assembly together against them at the entrance of the tent of meeting, then Jehovah’s glory appeared to all the assembly. Jehovah now spoke to Moses and Aaron, saying: ‘Separate yourselves from the midst of this assembly, that I may exterminate them in an instant.’” Not only do they abandon the true faith but they then “beat” their former associates, using public criticism and other methods to hinder their work; the efforts of such apostates are devoted to tearing down, not building up Matt. 24:45-51: “Who really is the faithful and discreet slave whom his master appointed over his domestics, to give them their food at the proper time? . . . But if ever that evil slave should say in his heart, ‘My master is delaying,’ and should start to beat his fellow slaves and should eat and drink with the confirmed drunkards, the master of that slave will come on a day that he does not expect and in an hour that he does not know, and will punish him with the greatest severity and will assign him his part with the hypocrites.” 2 Tim. 2:16-18: “Shun empty speeches that violate what is holy; for they will advance to more and more ungodliness, and their word will spread like gangrene. Hymenaeus and Philetus are of that number. These very men have deviated from the truth, saying that the resurrection has already occurred; and they are subverting the faith of some.”
Help! they're giving me a talk #4 entittled:" IDENTIFYING APOSTATES"
by dark angle 67 Replies latest watchtower beliefs
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kwintestal
The other thing I could suggest you do, is point to other religions as well, such as Mormons who have a similar view regarding apostacy and avoiding apostates so the JW's don't think they're alone in thier viewpoint and the attacks against them.
I'd say make sure you post your talk up once you're done ... but that would be a horrble give away as to who you are for any in the cong lurking now wouldn't it. Duh ... I'm a slow thinker sometimes.
Kwin
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UnConfused
INTRO:
Perhaps you think of apostates as faithless former JW's who troll the internet and have horns, but really apostate leanings may be much closer to home.
If you believe Jesus was talking of a literal generation in Matt 24 - you may be an apostate.
If you don't believe the bible condemns birthdays, you may be an apostate.
If you don't believe Jehovah God is the editor of the WT you may be an apostate.
If you believe it's possible to understand the bible without the aid of the WT you are an apostate!
The line from doubt to apostasy is very fine and very narrow. Let's consider some scriptures to make sure that you never, even for a micro second ever doubt the food that comes from our Mother or Father.
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Play the Uber faithful, ultra hardline, apostate hunting superdub.
Do everything in such a way that they can't question you without looking like they are being liberal, but by being superhardline you make them feel the nuttiness that we all see so clearly. -
Cold Creek Swimmer
Apostasy defined in the dictionary is one who turns against his religion and criticizes his former religion. Tell them that all who came into the organization and turned against their former religion (Catholic, Protestant...) are considered in the strictest definition of the word to be apostate. Then talk about how apostasy is only what it is defined as-changing religious beliefs. Technically, Jesus could be considered an apostate because he did not follow the religion of his day. His teachings were drastically different than what was the "norm". End by saying that apostasy is just a word, not a death sentence. Have fun!
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Balsam
I think avidbiblereader gave some good advice. You can take it to any degree you wish to avoid trouble. But remember you can always say no or just miss the meeting saying hey I forgot it entirely. You do not have to abide by their rules you can just not do it. But it could be great fun if you wanted to mess with their heads a bit. LOL Just before I left I refused to do any talks for nearly a year. I just told them to remove me from the school, after all it is not required that JW be on it is voluntary. I knew of witnesses who got off the school, it just made them too nervous giving talk, my mother was one of them.
apostate = 1. a person who forsakes his religion, cause, party, etc. 1340, "one who forsakes his religion or faith," from L.L. apostata, from Gk. apostasia "defection, desertion, rebellion," from apostenai "to defect," lit. "to stand off," from apo- "away from" (see apo-) + stenai "to stand." Used in non-religious situations (politics, etc.) from 1362.
Certainly that has a very broad meaning.
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dark angle
blondie, thats true! most of the #4 talks don't have reference materials, however this one has. & the conductor may watch me on how do i cover my points.
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avidbiblereader
Thanks Dark I might want to add this interesting scripture in Romans 3:4,9-17
4 Never may that happen! But let God be found true, though every man be found a liar, even as it is written: “That you might be proved righteous in your words and might win when you are being judged.”
9-17 9 What then? Are we in a better position? Not at all! For above we have made the charge that Jews as well as Greeks are all under sin; 10 just as it is written: “There is not a righteous [man], not even one; 11 there is no one that has any insight, there is no one that seeks for God. 12 All [men] have deflected, all of them together have become worthless; there is no one that does kindness, there is not so much as one.” 13 “Their throat is an opened grave, they have used deceit with their tongues.” “Poison of asps is behind their lips.” 14 “And their mouth is full of cursing and bitter expression.” 15 “Their feet are speedy to shed blood.” 16 “Ruin and misery are in their ways, 17 and they have not known the way of peace.” 18 “There is no fear of God before their eyes.”
It doesn't sound as if any of us are good or doing that well, no wonder the Bible says that life is a free gift and none of us deserve it, no one has the right to say they are better and especially since Paul said that he was no better than anyone else. We are pathetic and horn blowing doesn't cut it in God's eyes.
abr
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Gill
Don't they have 666 stamped on their foreheads?
The sneakier ones have it stamped on their left buttock....or so I've heard.
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willyloman
Just chill and do the talk. You're not in a position to upset the apple cart. And remember, you are the only person in the KH who will have any idea of the conflict raging within.
Use the outline someone proposed, hopscotching from one scripture to the other on the subject of apostasy. Just tell 'em what the bible says about apostasy and let anyone listening draw their own conclusions. Most folks won't hear anything anyway, and if you use scriptures they will compliment you on your "fine talk" and your "excellent research." That way, you haven't compromised your principles, your family is happy, and you save yourself a lot of stress.
Sooner or later, though, you won't be able to do this anymore. And that will be a good thing, trust me.
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Narkissos
Lol, I didn't write anything but intended to...
Perhaps you can squeeze in 2 John 9-11 and ask what is "going ahead of Christ's teaching" by John. Then concentrate on the first epistle about love, and "no need for any other teacher" (2:27).
But UnConfused's idea is much more clever...