It would seem to me that if 2014 comes and goes uneventfully, they will need to pull a rabbit out of their hats; but on the other hand, it appears that the blindly loyal will swallow any rationalization the WTBTS offers. Their capacity for gullibility is darn near infinite.
For Lurkers: Is the cover of the March 15th Watchtower deceptive?
by seek2find 40 Replies latest watchtower bible
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ozziepost
Their capacity for gullibility is darn near infinite
Oh yes! The coming of Jesus has been reduced to little more than a touchstone for the existence of the WTS and not much more. Jesus himself figures very little in their beliefs and consequently they have an organisation modelled on an OT god who they call Jehovah™.
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Doug Mason
It is my understanding that CTR borrowed the idea of a two-stage coming from the Dispensationalists. They have a Rapture followed some years later by the coming. Please don't ask me the details.
Barbour's idea of a secret Parousia having occurred in 1874 was scoffed at by the Dispensationalists because the Rapture had not taken place.
The WTS still has this two-stage coming, the Parousia stage followed much later by the Coming (Millennium), although they are very messy when they try to explain things.
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Cindi_67
OK Cindi, Here we go. Can you clarify this? If Jesus returned to heaven upon his Death didn't his "presence" in heaven begin at that time? And also hadn't he been present there before comming to Earth? If his "Presence"began with taking Kingship in 1914. Didn't he Come to the Throne at that time? Also Ps. 110:1 says "The utterance of Jehovah to my Lord is:“Sit at my right hand Until I place your enemies as a stool for your feet" If he assended the throne in 1914 according to this scripture wouldn't all his enemies have been removed at that time? seek2find
Seek2find:
Remember. When they talk about his presence, does not mean his presence in heaven, is his presence as King of God's Kingdom. This Kingdom is a new arrangement, part of the "new covenant" which he talked to the apostles when he told them, they will be with him and will reign, and will sit in thrones in heaven. That Scripture you just quoted is the one that will support the fact that when he ascended to heaven, he didn't immediately became King, he "waited until God placed his enemies as a stool for his feet", which "happened" in 1914. The book of Revelation chapter 12 describes Jesus Christ first move as King. 7 And war broke out in heaven: Mi´cha·el and his angels battled with the dragon, and the dragon and its angels battled 8 but it did not prevail, neither was a place found for them any longer in heaven. 9 So down the great dragon was hurled, the original serpent, the one called Devil and Satan, who is misleading the entire inhabited earth; he was hurled down to the earth, and his angels were hurled down with him.
That's the scripture used to describe the chaos that came after Satan was thrown down to earth. WWI followed by pestilences, food shortages, etc. (Rev. 6:1-17) The riding of the horsemen, also describes Jesus' enthronization as King. 2 And I saw, and, look! a white horse; and the one seated upon it had a bow; and a crown was given him, and he went forth conquering and to complete his conquest.
3 And when he opened the second seal, I heard the second living creature say: “Come!” 4 And another came forth, a fiery-colored horse; and to the one seated upon it there was granted to take peace away from the earth so that they should slaughter one another; and a great sword was given him.
5 And when he opened the third seal, I heard the third living creature say: “Come!” And I saw, and, look! a black horse; and the one seated upon it had a pair of scales in his hand. 6 And I heard a voice as if in the midst of the four living creatures say: “A quart of wheat for a de·nar´i·us, and three quarts of barley for a de·nar´i·us; and do not harm the olive oil and the wine.”
7 And when he opened the fourth seal, I heard the voice of the fourth living creature say: “Come!” 8 And I saw, and, look! a pale horse; and the one seated upon it had the name Death. And Ha´des was closely following him. And authority was given them over the fourth part of the earth, to kill with a long sword and with food shortage and with deadly plague and by the wild beasts of the earth.
9 And when he opened the fifth seal, I saw underneath the altar the souls of those slaughtered because of the word of God and because of the witness work that they used to have. 10 And they cried with a loud voice, saying: “Until when, Sovereign Lord holy and true, are you refraining from judging and avenging our blood upon those who dwell on the earth?” 11 And a white robe was given to each of them; and they were told to rest a little while longer, until the number was filled also of their fellow slaves and their brothers who were about to be killed as they also had been.
12 And I saw when he opened the sixth seal, and a great earthquake occurred; and the sun became black as sackcloth of hair, and the entire moon became as blood, 13 and the stars of heaven fell to the earth, as when a fig tree shaken by a high wind casts its unripe figs. 14 And the heaven departed as a scroll that is being rolled up, and every mountain and [every] island were removed from their places. 15 And the kings of the earth and the top-ranking ones and the military commanders and the rich and the strong ones and every slave and [every] free person hid themselves in the caves and in the rock-masses of the mountains. 16 And they keep saying to the mountains and to the rock-masses: “Fall over us and hide us from the face of the One seated on the throne and from the wrath of the Lamb, 17 because the great day of their wrath has come, and who is able to stand?”
So far that is my explanation.
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seek2find
Cindi: Do I understand you correctly that he wasn't installed as King in heaven in 1914? please see below from the 1988 Watchtower.
9/15/88 Watchtower says:
16 By rebelling, Zedekiah wounded himself in a deadly way. (Read Ezekiel 21:25-27.) When Judah’s king was deposed, the royal turban and the crown were removed. (2 Kings 25:1-7) The “high” kingdom of Judah was ‘brought low’ by being destroyed in 607 B.C.E. Thus the “low” Gentile kingdoms were “put on high,” leaving them in control of the earth without interference by a typical kingdom of God. (Deuteronomy 28:13, 15, 36, 43, 44) So began “the appointed times of the nations”—the Gentile Times—that ended in 1914 when God conferred kingship upon Jesus Christ, ‘the one having the legal right’ to it. (Luke 21:20-24; Psalm 110:1, 2; Daniel 4:15-28; 7:13, 14) With Jesus on a heavenly throne, Gentile nations cannot trample upon what ancient Jerusalem symbolized, the Kingdom of David’s legal heir.—Hebrews 12:22.
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Cindi_67
Cindi: Do I understand you correctly that he wasn't installed as King in heaven in 1914? please see below from the 1988 Watchtower.
No, I said he wasn't installed as King until 1914.
By the way, people that are reading all this, just want to remind you, this is an exercise. I am trying to explain the way I understood the coming of Jesus Christ in 1914 vs. other members opinions. In this case seek is the only one that have joined. It is not a heated debate, or a JW lurker here trying to make you understand the 1914 teaching.
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seek2find
OK, Fisrt let me say. This is not an argument. Just like Cindi said.
Cindi: So if he was installed as King in 1914 didn't he come to his throne at that Time? Normaly, if a person is present somewhere, they had to come there to be present. Right? seek2find
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Cindi_67
OK, Fisrt let me say. This is not an argument. Just like Cindi said.
Cindi: So if he was installed as King in 1914 didn't he come to his throne at that Time? Normaly, if a person is present somewhere, they had to come there to be present. Right? seek2find
Yes, he did come to be installed as King, therefore he came to his throne at that time. His "presence" as King was felt because the war between him and Satan, threw Satan down to earth, which provoked all the distress that came to happen, starting with WWI. He hasn't turned his attention to earth in regards to the destruction of the wicked which is where the term "coming" comes to play. His "coming" means, that he pays attention directly to earth's governments and to all the wicked and destroys them in Armageddon.
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seek2find
OK Cindi: You sound like a good witness. I'll accept your (their) explanation, even tho I don't agree with it. Since you sound like such a good witness, might I ask What are you doing here???? ( A Joke, Just kidding):) seek2find
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drew sagan
Does anybody have a scan of this cover?