Talk on Apostates
by IslandBrother 86 Replies latest watchtower bible
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greendawn
Perhaps the apostates have valid reasons to criticise the JW organisation, its doctrines and the way it is run. I personally never liked the dictatorial approach of the Governing Body and the way they refuse to listen to anyone (including their fellow anointed) about the errors that need to be corrected when these get pointed out to them. Surprise surprise anyone doing this (including again the fellow anointed) will get thrown out in short order. In addition their claim of having been divinely appointed is far too grandiose given their great shortcomings eg the inability to formulate stable doctrine something they try to justify with the old/new light principle.
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avidbiblereader
Welocme IslandBrother, this is a very interesting discussion, I would like to paste and copy some of your words in your discussion
If you have your reasoning book please turn with me to page 34 and read with me the definition of apostasy.
THIS IS MAN MADE AND I PREFER TO TURN TO THE BIBLE AND SEE WHAT THE BIBLICAL DEFINTION IS FOR AN APOSTATE, YOU SEE THE PROBLEM I HAVE WITH THE REASONING BOOK IS IT IS A MAN MADE PUBLICATION WITH THE INTENT OF PROTECTING ON ITS FOLLOWERS OR PUBLISHERS
Definition: Apostasy is abandoning or deserting the worship and service of God, actually a rebellion against Jehovah God. Some apostates profess to know and serve God but reject teachings or requirements set out in his Word. Others claim to believe the Bible but reject Jehovah’s organization. Tonight let’s discuss a couple of ways in which we can identify apostates.
THE WORD APOSTATE COMES FROM THE GREEK WORD
?p?stas?a
apostasia
NOW LET US LOOK AT THE GREEK MEANING OF THE TERM AS MEANT TO BE FROM THE BIBLE IT MEANS
defection from truth (properly the state), (“apostasy”):—falling away, forsake.
TO FALL AWAY FORSAKE THE "TRUTH", AND WHAT IS TRUTH AS QUESTIONED BY PONTIUS PILATE
JESUS ANWERED THAT THE NIGHT BEFORE HIS DEATH IN PRAYER TO HIS FATHER
JOHN 17:17 Sanctify them by means of the truth; your word is truth.
First let’s look at “Acts 20:30 From among you yourselves men will rise and speak twisted things to draw away the disciples after themselves.” And now let’s turn to (Romans 16:17-18) and notice how Paul helped the Roman congregation identify the footprints of apostates. 17 Now I exhort YOU, brothers, to keep your eye on those who cause divisions and occasions for stumbling contrary to the teaching that YOU have learned, and avoid them. 18 For men of that sort are slaves, not of our Lord Christ, but of their own bellies; and by smooth talk and complimentary speech they seduce the hearts of guileless ones.
VERY GOOD SCRIPTURE BUT WHEN LOOKING AT THIS HISTORICALLY, AND YOU MUST BE HONEST WITH YOURSELF, WOULD JEHOVAH WITNESS FIT THE SHOE, WOULD THEY FIT THE CRITERIA THAT PAUL AND OTHER CHRISTIAN WRITERS WARNED AGAINST FOLLOWING THESE MEN, ABSOLUTELY, AS THE WITNESSES PUT WAY TO MUCH EMPHASIS ON FOLLOWING A SELF APPOINTED GB, A SELF APPOINTED "FAITHFUL SLAVE", FOLLOWING BODY OF ELDERS, INDIVIDUAL ELDERS, FOLLOWING CO"s AND DO"s,
HAVE THE WITNESS FALLEN AWAY FROM FOLLOWING THE TRUTH OF GOD'S WORD AND HIS WORD PERIOD? NO OTHER RELIGION PUBLISHES MORE MAN MADE LITERTURE AND ITS ADHERENTS FOLLOW THAT AND ACTUALLY STUDY THIS MORE THAN THE BIBLE, THE WITNESSES HAVE TAKEN UPON THEMSELVES GOD'S NAME AND BROUGHT HEAPS OF REPROACH ON HIS NAME WITH THEIR CONDUCT, FALSE PROPHECIES, THEIR COVER UPS AND LIES AND HAVE TAKEN THE PLACE OF CHRIST IN THEIR JUDGMENTAL COMMENTS OF NO ONE ELSE GETTING LIFE BECAUSE THEY DON'T ATTEND A KINGDOM HALL, THEY HAVE SEATED THEMSELVES IN THE SEAT OF GOD, AS THEY PROCLAIM THEY ARE THE MEDIATOR FOR THE GREAT CROWD AND THE GREAT CROWD GETS LIFE BECAUSE OF THEIR ASSOCIATION WITH THEM,
Did you notice some identifying marks? Apostates aren’t satisfied just following another set of foot prints. They aim to make others their followers by using…. Counterfeit words Smooth talk Twisted reasoning Half-truths Flattery Deceptive logic Empty speeches And Outright lies to try to draw us away from Christ’s footsteps.
AGAIN THIS FITS THE DESCRIPTION OF MANY RELIGIONS AND THE WITNESSES ARE NO DIFFERENT THAN THE OTHERS THEY CONDEMN
They toss around seeds of doubt by using public criticism and other methods to get in the way of our work.
I HAVE BEEN AROUND MANY RELIGIONS AND NO OTHER RELIGION THAT I KNOW OF HAS SPOKEN OUT AGAINST OTHER RELIGIONS MORE THEN JW'S, THE WAY OF YOU WORK, AND WHAT WORK IS THAT, PUBLISHING OR SPREADING "TRUTH" WHICH IS GOD'S WORD, AS EVERYONE WHO HAS STUDIED OR STUDIED WITH OTHERS, YOU STUDY MAN MADE BOOKS, MAN MADE WORDS, MAN MADE BELIEFS OVER THE BIBLE.
YES THIS IS A GOOD SUBJECT, BUT IN YOUR PROCESS OF POINTING THE FINGER AT OTHERS AND PERHAPS SOME ON THIS SITE, THE CRITERIA FITS THOSE WHOM YOU ARE TRYING TO DEFEND.
AGAIN WELCOME AND HOPE THIS CLEARS UP THE DISCUSSION ON APOSTATES AND WHO ACTUALLY FITS THE BIBLICAL TERM.
abr
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found-my-way
Isnt it funny How the Society tells the rank and file brothers and sisters what apostates believe and do, and yet do not let the rank and file see for themselves if this is really so. I remember how I used to think I knew what apostates were about, and I was WRONG.
IF the GOVERNING BODY and the WATCH TOWER BIBLE TRACT SOCIETY have nothing to hide, they would allow their doctrines to be scrutinized and thoroughly examined against the facts and their past teachings, to let JW's read other Bibles to see the inconsistencies, to read about the translator of New World Translation....Yes I used to think that it was infallible, that it was unbiased....wow, was I WRONG.
Does not a dictatorship tell the masses what to read, what to think, what to believe???
Do you think that communist countries are in the right to tell their people what to believe and how to live their life?
Do you think Hitler's viewpoint was correct, or was it a psychoctic dictatorship?
Now tell me if you can honestly say that the Society doesn't have total control over what you are allowed to view, read, hear and think???
When you wake up and realize that you are listening to men who claim to have guidance from god, you will understand why the society doesnt want you to read ''apostate'' information.
it is because they are SCARED you will learn the truth about their lies and deceit....
How would you feel if you found out that your wife of 10 years had been cheating on you for the last 10 years and that she wasnt the person that you thought you married...wouldnt you be angry and upset? Wouldnt you feel hurt and betrayed?
That's how you will feel after learning about their history and the tactics used by the Society on it's great crowd of little sheep.
You can choose to believe me or not, but I tell you this much I have nothing, absolutely nothing to gain by telling you this.
I just want people to be happy, and if The Organization does that for you, then great, stay blissfully ignorant. but when things start to bother you, when that little voice of doubt starts to get louder in your head, you will understand that where I am coming from, and you will do research into the religion that has held your life in it's hands.
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Hellrider
They forgot to mention: "They still actually read the tons of crap that we, the Watctower, spewed out years ago, the stuff that turned out to be lies, and then they remind us of it"...
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95stormfront
Jezz....another newbie comes here and practice their "dumptrunk" theology. They come in here, drop a rotten smelly load off, and then cruise on down the road.
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jgnat
I couldn't read the whole thing, the lack of paragraph breaks was too much. Besides, I am supposed to be making my breakfast. Right off, though, I couldn't help visualizing this:
Have you ever walked on the beach and tried following another persons footprints; matching your own steps with them as exactly as possible?
..and looked like a crazy drunk while I was at it. Perhaps when we are inspired to "follow Jesus' footsteps", we are to go in the direction he's pointed us. To keep from looking like a drunken fool, though, we need to keep our eyes focused on the horizon, and trust our own sense of balance.
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BlackSwan of Memphis
I remember hearing a talk similar to this before I left.
The thing that I find interesting now is that, I don't want my family and friends out because I want them to follow me out, I want them to be able to see for their own two eyes (the many pairs of eyes) the deceptiveness of the Organization and the danger in allowing men to control their thoughts.
At one time I would have loved to have given a talk like that, now, I can honestly say that it was by their own literature that I was able to figure out that they use deception and lies and threats to keep people in. That doesn't sound like truth to me.
I can't quite figure out your angle, I am hoping for the best.
Welcome to the board, I hope that you are able to learn a few things here.
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Elsewhere
Whoever wrote that talk obviously stole the idea from the "Footsteps in the Sand" story/poem.
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A Paduan
If you have your reasoning book please turn with me to page 34 and read with me the definition of apostasy. Definition: Apostasy is abandoning or deserting the worship and service of God, actually a rebellion against Jehovah God.
That's the watchtower publishing co. definition - it's not the traditionally accepted language use
Some apostates profess to know and serve God but reject teachings or requirements set out in his Word. Others claim to believe the Bible but reject Jehovah’s organization.
Clearly this definition then refers to a rejection of the American relgious group that publishes the watchtower pulications.
Now I exhort YOU, brothers, to keep your eye on those who cause divisions and occasions for stumbling contrary to the teaching that YOU have learned, and avoid them.
To people other than jws, this description applies to and identifies jws as apostate.
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Somehow I get the feeling I'm probably wasting my time responding to religious dumptruck drivers.