by Leander 30 Replies latest social relationships
No, in a discussion board, the best member to deaden if you're stupid like myself is your hand.
Exactly. If you lie on your hand for about 30 minutes till it goes completely asleep, it feels like someone else is doing it
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Those who can induce you to believe absurdities can induce you to commit attrocities - Voltaire
Leander
Its wierd how obsessed the WT are with sex,so many witnesses are drunkards and stay in so called good standing but sex is on the top of the sin list,appart from so called appostasy.
Its strange that ancient men of old who were counted as rightouse had countless wives and concubines,think of all the orgies they could have with those wives and concubines,yet one reason given for it being OK at the time was that no divine law was made against it until Jesus spoke many years later,so in other words if this was so reprehensive to God why was it not ruled out from the start? How can someone one day do something and be counted rightouse and the next day disgusting?
Another reason given for it being OK was that the Jews had a mandate to reproduce and spread the nation but after Christ the mandate was no longer to spread the Jewish nation so multiple wives and concubines(or sex slaves doubling as breeding machines)were no longer required due to the change in circumstances.
But similar reasoning could be used to Justify recreational sex today ie a change in circumstances due to the availability of contraception etc it could be rationalized that such need not result in unwanted pregnancies etc the main opposition to such,so it all seems a bit wierd to me sometimes.
Frightmare:
>>They are so constructed that they remain calm until impulses are received from the mind and heart to excite them.The capacity for response is there in the body. It is dormant until stimulated.<<
Where's the mind and heart involved if you're awoken by a randy wife, to find yourself fully erect?
LT
MrMoe:
>>Does anybody have any further thoughts on the fornication is different than adultry idea? I look forward to any further insight any of you may have on the subject.<<
Only that you make certain promises and commitments in the marriage vows. The emotional damage, caused by that break in trust, can be considerable.
Cornish makes some good points.
LT
Thanks, Abaddon for the advice. I wasn't feeling quite myself yesterday!
I'm learning when to, as my hero Dr. Phil says, just sit back and enjoy a good shut up *lol* :)
*hug*
essie
The Wt spin does put a hardship on kids raised in the "troof"....
Dont get me wrong, sex is meant for married people specifically good ol "intercourse" but as a witness kid you have no normal outlest for healthy expeimentation. I dont encourage kids to do the horizontal bop but thats how virgin witness marriages start out, real sex right off the bat....lot of pressure and stress fo a new marriage.
Its been my experience that most young JW fellas are horny little bastards. The equate sexual processes with "wrong" and get some messed up prorities and never learn how to socalize with women or relate to them in a mature way.Most of the girls I grew up with had similar problems----they were either really pent up or swinging to fridgid because of guilt or the other end of the spectrum-those little girls that tried to jump your bones every chance they got.
The catch 22- whats more moral? A little "self-abuse" or getting married as "self defence" fleeing from wrong desires as it were
and possible condeming your mate to a poor union?
Back in the old days boys and girls started out slowly. Chaperoned 8th grade dances, spin the bottle, carrying books from school. Then maybe some steady dating, getting "pinned", some back seat or balcony neckin'.
Full sex happened more often than we would like to admit but most kids learned how to get along way before it came to doing the deed. Witness kids are denied that socialization and it tends to warp them.
hillbilly,
Dont get me wrong, sex is meant for married people specifically good ol "intercourse"
Hogwash!
- Jan
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"Doctor how can you diagnose someone with Obsessive Compulsive Disorder and then act like I had some choice about barging in here right now?" -- As Good As It Gets
Sorry jan let me clarify--- I dont think promiscuous mating of unmarried folks is acceptable.A little self-control goes a long way in any pleasurable activity. Sex, drunkeness- lots of other things- are just 'sins"(shortcomings) so to speak and non are ranked ahead of the other . If the "little head" takes over it aint the end of the world! Just might not be the most reponsible action for a lot of young couples. So If your going to "hogwash" me be a man and give a little intelligent rebutal. there is also the issue of young boys "using" young girls. Unless you are mature enough to make an emotional commitment and shoulder the responsibilties of failed birth control keep your wick dry (or get a catch rag).
The point I'm trying to make the old values here in the "backwards" midwestern USA used to let people build up to married sex
in a progressive fashion. Witnesses kids get put in this "nothing then everything" scenario. Cant be good.
Not all contact HAS to lead to intercourse, dude. and I'm not talking about this "techinical virgin" bs either. the point is there is a time and place for everything including a progressive education in "courting", romance and sexuality. Young witnesses dont get a healthy shot at learning any of these skills.
A hundred years or so it was not uncommon for a young boy to learn lovin'(sex) skills from a 'soiled dove' out here in these prarie towns. The girl you married was the "mother of your children" (Madonna -Whore Behavior is what the shrinks call it). You probaly dont know that most folks were pregnant at marriage during that time period. I never saw this as hypocrisy exactly- just common sense based on the culture at the time- the hypocrisy came from thos who denied the existance of such activity.
Around the turn of the century there was a movent to prudence in the USA and alot of people think thats been the norm forever.
Now you want to "discuss" ? Or more mindless hogwash?
I aint "right" man -I'm open for discussion so if you have something to say lets hear it. Americans like a good discussion, our nation is founded with and prospers on debate.
Regarding sex and the Watchtower Society: Leo Greenlees was a child molester whom fellow Governing Body members over JWs reassigned but never disfellowshipped (excommunicated/shunned) in the 1980s, and into Aug 2001 child abuse by Watchtower Society (WTS) associates was still officially covered up, causing costly destructive court costs and reproach including articles in Christianity Today and investigations by Dateline NBC. For copies of letters to the Bodies Of Elders regular members aren't shown including on child abuse see: www.silentlambs.org, freeminds.org, observer.org.
Some members have reported elders resorting to physical harassment (poking, shoving etc), hinting "Jehovah’s eyes are everywhere" and giving details of the members’ most private conversations and bedroom doings with their own marriage mates. WTS heads put out articles saying for elders not to “police” the bedrooms in 1978 but later in a talk (but not in writing) in 1983 told regular members "The Practice" of some marital intimacies can lead to Expulsion. (discussed on Jehovahs-Witness.com) So regular JWs absent that evening have been "expelled" (harassed/trained) without clearly aware why. Contrast this to the pedophilia coverups.
The "Insight" books by the WTS have articles on all Bible books except the Song of Solomon (also called Canticles) which has much positive marital imagery out of line with the Gov Body’s views of what is “holy.” Instructed to keep such things "in-house" when asked most elders deny the 1983-onwards policy in order to protect the Governing Body. Courtesy of
To be fair, I think most Jehovah's Witnesses want to obey the Bible; particularly it's views on sex. Nevertheless, I think the Society's interpretation on what constitutes good and bad sex is heavily skewed. Whether they realize it or not, they're instilling this sense of fear that will always be attached to their interpretation, and I can tell you, the more I stayed a JW, the more terrified I was of it. There's always this fear of getting into trouble, getting Df'd, getting AIDS, it's almost like JW's forget that it is a beautiful thing shared between two people. It was only after I distanced myself from the congregation that I was able confirm to myself my sexual feelings for both men and women, and see enough beauty in both to see that true love transcends that of any religious organization.
C'mon, let's be honest here, the society probably receives more letters about sex than Playboy and Penthouse combined. And there's your problem: Only the society’s view of sex is what goes. Just look at a picture of the governing body. Do you really want any of these people telling you how to do it? I sure don't, but they have put themselves in this position as a tribal chief in order to declare what is right and proper. So, therefore:
1.) If you can't stop masturbating, get married.
2.) If you are attracted to guys, stay celibate for the rest of your life, or get married, even if you're not attracted to the person.
3.) Boys and girls cannot be alone together.
4.) If you want to become a missionary in a foreign land, and you're single, you have to get married, even if you're not attracted to the person.
To further show how unbelievably wrong their views are on sex, just look at the bias in their Watchtower articles. They refuse to even address this notion that there are gay, lesbian, bisexual, and possible even transgender people in the congregation. For them, they don't exist. It's almost like we're dehumanized in a sense, we're less than human, and I can tell you I'm a more functional human being than any member of the elder body in (what was) my congregation.
So, I think the best approach is merely a hands off approach. There are both good and bad things about sex, marriage, celibacy to be analyzed. To merely present one side is unethical, dishonest, and immoral.
