Caught in the headlights

Honesty

I recently asked a JW to explain the discrepancies in the following Scriptures between 1 Corinthians 10:3-4 and 1 Corinthians 10:9 in their New World Translation:

First I presented the Scripture as it is rendered in another modern day translation, as it is rendered in the original Greek and as it is rendered in the Latin Vulgate:

1 Corinthians 10:3-4 They all ate the same spiritual food, 4 and all drank the same spiritual drink. For they drank from a spiritual rock that followed them, and that rock was Christ.

1 Corinthians 10:9 Let us not tempt Christ as some of them did, and were destroyed by snakes.

I included the Greek text for the JW's expert consideration:

1 Corinthians 10:3-4 kai pantev to auto pneumatikon brwma efagon, kai pantev to auto pneumatikon epion poma; epinon gar ek pneumatikhv akolouqoushv petrav; h petra de hn o Xristov.

1 Corinthians 10:9 mhde ekpeirazwmen ton Xriston, kaqwv tinev autwn epeirasan, kai upo twn ofewn apwllunto.

Here is the Latin Vulgate for the JW's expert consideration:

1 Corinthians 10:3-4 et omnes eandem escam spiritalem manducaverunt
et omnes eundem potum spiritalem biberunt bibebant autem de spiritali consequenti eos petra petra autem erat Christus

1 Corinthians 10:9 neque temptemus Christum sicut quidam eorum temptaverunt et a serpentibus perierunt

I suggested that the JW look on page 214 of Strong's Exhaustive Concordance of the Bible (which I happened to have with me) and compare 1 Corinthians 10:4 with 1 Corinthians 10:9.

I also suggested that the JW look on page 1654 of Strong's Exhaustive Concordance of the Bible and examine # 5547.

Then I said, "let's see how 1 Corinthians 10:3-4 and 1 Corinthians 10:9 reads in your New World Translation."

1 Corinthinas 10:3-4 and all ate the same spiritual food and all drank the same spiritual drink. For they used to drink from the spiritual rock-mass that followed them, and that rock-mass meant the Christ.

1 Corinthians 10:9 Neither let us put Jehovah to the test, as some of them put [him] to the test, only to perish by the serpents.

"JW, will you please explain why Christ is used in 1 Corinthinas 10:3-4 but Jehovah is used in 1 Corinthians 10:9 when it is the same word in your New World Translation and tell me why?

The look I received from the JW was priceless.

Merry Magdalene

was that the look?

~Merry

Leolaia

There are quite a few examples of this, if one only looks:

Romans 10:9-13: "For if you publicly declare that ‘word in your own mouth,’ that Jesus is Lord, and exercise faith in your heart that God raised him up from the dead, you will be saved. For with the heart one exercises faith for righteousness, but with the mouth one makes public declaration for salvation. For the Scripture says: 'None that rests his faith on him will be disappointed.' For there is no distinction between Jew and Greek, for there is the same Lord over all, who is rich to all those calling upon him. For 'everyone who calls on the name of Jehovah [= Lord in the original Greek, i.e. Jesus] will be saved' " (NWT).

Romans 14:7-9: "None of us, in fact, lives with regard to himself only, and no one dies with regard to himself only; for both if we live, we live to Jehovah [= Lord in the original Greek, i.e. Christ], and if we die, we die to Jehovah [= Lord in the original Greek, i.e. Christ]. Therefore both if we live and if we die, we belong to Jehovah [= Lord in the original Greek, i.e. Christ]. For to this end Christdied and came to life again, that he might be Lord over both the dead and the living" (NWT).

1 Corinthians 2:16: "For 'who has come to know the mind of Jehovah [= Lord in the original Greek, i.e. Christ], that he may instruct him?' But we do have the mind of Christ" (NWT).

1 Corinthians 4:4-5: "For I am not conscious of anything against myself. Yet by this I am not proved righteous, but he that examines me is Jehovah [= Lord in the original Greek]. Hence do not judge anything before the due time, until the Lord (i.e. Jesus) comes, who will both bring the secret things of darkness to light and make the counsels of the hearts manifest, and then each one will have his praise come to him from God" (NWT).

1 Corinthians 10:16-21, 11:27: " The cup of blessing which we bless, is it not a sharing in the blood of the Christ? The loaf which we break, is it not a sharing in the body of the Christ? Because there is one loaf, we, although many, are one body, for we are all partaking of that one loaf. LOOK at that which is Israel in a fleshly way: Are not those who eat the sacrifices sharers with the altar? What, then, am I to say? That what is sacrificed to an idol is anything, or that an idol is anything? No; but I say that the things which the nations sacrifice they sacrifice to demons, and not to God; and I do not want YOU to become sharers with the demons. YOU cannot be drinking the cup of Jehovah [= Lord in the original Greek, i.e. Christ] and the cup of demons; YOU cannot be partaking of 'the table of Jehovah [= Lord in the original Greek, i.e. Christ]' and the table of demons...Consequently whoever eats the loaf or drinks the cup of the Lord [i.e. Christ] unworthily will be guilty respecting the body and the blood of the Lord [i.e. Christ]" (NWT).

Of course, most JWs would not notice that these verses containing "Jehovah" in the NWT refer to Jesus Christ, as they are not encouraged to read the Bible contextually.

crazyblondeb

Or was it one of these looks? hmm gross confused crying disoriented

karnage

That sounds like it was a true Kodak moment! I would have snapped a photo with my digital camera!

pierogi

Is the JW you asked going to get back to you on that? I'd like to know what he/she says.

Confession

Nice one, Honesty. Has the WTS ever published any reason for that particular translation?

Gordy

Honesty, Leolaia

Those are the verses that first started to make me doubt JW teaching.

Especially Rom 10:9-13 and 14:7-9

Whenever I heard a JW uses these in talks at KH, and they would be going on about Jehovah.

My mind was shouting "Its not Jehovah its JESUS!!"

Honesty

Is the JW you asked going to get back to you on that?
pierogi

I think it was a one time shot so I gave him something to really think about that maybe he had never been confronted with.

By now, most JW's have been exposed to the UN/NGO affair, they don't have a single clue about what the Watchtower Masters allow them to take as far as blood fractions, they eat up all that crap about "resurrected ones" of the "24 Elder Class" directing the WorldWide Work and forget all about page 384 of the Reasoning Book, they stay in the cult because that's where their friends and families are (my ex told me she wanted to stay a JW because all her friends are JW's. I said, "why can't you leave and still be friends with them?" You all know the LOOK I got), they are terrified that the Evil Watchtower God is gonna frig them right out of existence if they even think something is wrong up in Brooklyn and so on and on.

Nope, that's the last I'll ever see of that JW.

Honesty

was that the look?
~Merry

Were you hiding behind the maple tree, Merry? That is exactly the look. Priceless.

Caught in the headlights

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