BASIC thinking....a TEST of how rational we are. (page 5)

SPAZnik

It seems to me that rational thought has it's place.

I'm not inclined (at this moment) to make it the "be all and end all", anymore or less than making anything else the "be all and end all" but I definitely see and even occasionally employ (haha) it's usefulness, and see it as a complement to the arsenal of other tools at my disposal.

I'm fond of a little joke I have with myself, to keep the whole "shebang" in fun/healthy/manageable perspective: "My mind is a tool". (teehee)

I quite enjoy threads like this that lend themselves to sharpening mine. :)
(Thank you all!)

Perhaps I place a high "value" (which seems to be the buzzword of the day today and takes me back to tenth grade social studies) on tools, cuz it be cool runnin' into people with nice tools. hahahah

I am reminded of an evolved version of an old cliche a couple of wise ol' birds shared with me once: "All things in moderation, especially moderation."

Tool away.

aniron

Terry

You are beginning to sound like a Watchtower article writer.

AuldSoul

It seems to me that rational thought has it's place.

Well put, SPAZnik.

Its place is not ubiquitously used to the exclusion of all other kinds of thinking throughout all human endeavor. Pure rationality is cumbersome outside the laboratory. It's cumbersome within the laboratory, too, but useful.

A mix of rationality and subjectivity are much more conducive to the practical day-to-day needs of humanity, in my opinion.

Respectfully,
AuldSoul

Sad emo

I thought a lot about this thread during a sleepless night and I came to wonder this:

What is 'rational'?

Can rationality itself be defined?

I think not. It is entirely subjective - what may be rational thinking to one of us might not be to another - for example this entire thread! Who is being rational?

I wonder if Descartes had the closest answer with his quote 'I think, therefore I am'? Anything beyond that may be pure speculation.

Terry

A mix of rationality and subjectivity are much more conducive to the practical day-to-day needs of humanity, in my opinion.

Well, to be precise about it....ALL your thoughts are YOURS from YOUR point of view and all your feelings are YOURS. So, everything you think and feel are subjective. That is inescapable. What I'm suggesting is that you examine your subjective thinking (and feeling) to see if it stands the test of being real. (Matching reality).

Is that too much to ask??

Terry

What is 'rational'?
Can rationality itself be defined?

Everything we have learned that is true (matches the real world) has come from our senses. We perceive with our senses.

The sense impressions are used by our brain to separate out one thing from another thing.

To make these categories meaningful to us we create labels.

These labels are Concepts.

Think of them as Folders with a Label on them (like your desktop on your PC).

What you put inside these folders (definitions) determines whether your concept is accurate (matches the reality of your conceptual label).

Taking the trouble to measure, calculate, examine and inspect your definitions is what we mean by RATIONAL.

In other words, the Ratio of reality to definition is exactly the same. (The truth, the whole truth and nothing but the truth).

Subjective means WE alone are thinking and feeling. Our toothache is OUR pain. Others can only try to empathize and understand our toothache by ABSTRACTING from their own pain.

Making our Concepts accurate through constant updates (refining our definitions and tossing out faulty ones) is RATIONAL THINKING.

Using reason or logic in thinking out a problem. (Rationality, rationalism).
homepage.tinet.ie/~peterc/a/a5.html

trevor

I value the insight that has been shared on this subject in this thread. It is understandable that a totally logical approach may be too ruthless for some and may appear to be too extreme for all situations. Logic is a laser that cuts through all the nonsense and forces us to question everything we have ever accepted of valued in our lives.

I have had to make a conscious effort to separate fact from fiction and take an objective look at all aspects of life. However hard I try I will always be a dreamer, so I have no fear that I will become so logical and focused that I will completely loose the comfort of allowing my mind to wander, to dream, to imagine, to indulge in a little fantasy. But it will remain a hobby for rainy days and not replace the day job!

trev

AuldSoul

Making our Concepts accurate through constant updates (refining our definitions and tossing out faulty ones) is RATIONAL THINKING.

Making concepts "accurate" is a subjective process called "labeling."

What I'm suggesting is that you examine your subjective thinking (and feeling) to see if it stands the test of being real. (Matching reality).

The criteria for what is and is not real is also subjective, humans are incapable of objectivity. It is a vain pursuit that will never be achieved. In my estimation a pursuit not worth the rewards. Constraining the subjective side of humanity is just as stupid and shortsighted as constraining the rational side of humanity. Either is doomed to create tunnel-vision.

AuldSoul

Terry

The criteria for what is and is not real is also subjective, humans are incapable of objectivity.

So, humans can't tell the difference between a boogeyman in the closet and a bullet in the leg?

Really now, this is silly!!

AuldSoul

With extreme differences, the distinction is easy, Terry. You intentionally use hyperbole to exaggerate the extremes you were earlier talking about. Are we talking about extremes? If so, then someone who cannot distinguish between reality and fantasy in extreme circumstances is mentally unwell and there are likely medications that can help.

With subtle differences the distinctions can be so difficult to discern that distinguishing can be impossible, and making a distinction becomes impractical. For instance, fire is real for all practical purposes, although in rational fact it is not. If the boogeyman in the closet shoots someone suddenly it becomes more difficult for the person who experienced it to tell the difference.

As you correctly stated ALL experience is filtered through our experience processing unit (our brain). Cognition and emotion are also in the mix. The conclusions are invariably an amalgam of these. If anyone manages to vacate themselves of one or another of these normal human processing systems they become mentally unwell. Pure rationality is a mental illness, defined as such in the DVM.

I am capable of an excessive degree of rational thought; e.g. fire does not exist, it occurs; forests are a subjective label and what constitutes a forest may be different for me than for someone else. Mentally, I keep myself aware of such subtle rational distinctions to a greater degree than I believe most people do.

But I embrace the other complementing spectrum of emotions just as thoroughly, and seek to understand and enjoy the nuance of these as well.

You preach rationality and objectivity; I come along behind you to demonstrate where you fail. No mentally stable human is objective. No mentally stable human is capable of pure objectivity.

You advocate what you are incapable of attaining. It comes across to me as almost Pharisaical. It has struck me as odd many times before and this thread is no exception. It seems your obsessive insistence on the supremacy of objective reality is ... well ... irrational.

AuldSoul

BASIC thinking....a TEST of how rational we are.

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