What would we like them to do? What would we do in their shoes?

ThomasCovenant

Hi

A lot of the discussion on this site is about how do we go about trying, if at all, to show friends and family the truth about the 'truth'. My parents are still 'in' and in their late sixties. Dad still window cleaning of course. My two brothers and sister, who all left years before me, tell me it's not worth kicking away our parents 'comfort zone' at this stage in their lives.

I, on the other hand, being the oldest and having been duped the longest time feel what is best described as barely controlled rage for a dishonest killing religion.I want to confront my parents and try and convince them of the absolute lunacy of the WTS.

Reading postings here I see I'm not the only one. However more often than not the advice, suggestions and comments given by others is one of restraint in dealings with our loved ones. I myself have commented on my favourite Aesop fable of the Sun and the Wind. (Gently does it).

Everybody's circumstances are different of course and I'm not offering advice one way or the other but it does seem that the gentle approach seems the favoured one.

Now my point is, when it comes to the Society itself, just imagine that the powers that be are as aware as us that it is not the 'truth'. Do we expect them to suddenly stop all printing production after announcing

''Sorry brothers it's all a load of bollocks. Please get on as best you can with the rest of your lives.''

Or do they carry on whilst easing up and abandoning on the doctrines (1914 generation, 1935 sealing of heavenly calling, military service, voting, further education,blood fractions followed by all blood, birthdays, Xmas, no need to go in service, disfellowshipping etc etc).

This second option of gradually going lax and mainstream without any of the bad points would still keep the ones who want it happy.

First option could be viewed as a bit traumatic.

If we were number one at Brooklyn what would we do? A gradual abandonment, letting people down to reality gently or total pull out of the rug beneath them.

Myself I'm not sure but it's something I've been thinking about recently as it helps me not to become too full of hatred for men in Brooklyn I've never met.

Hope the point I'm trying to make gets across.

Thanks

Thomas Covenant

AuldSoul

ThomasCovenant: If we were number one at Brooklyn what would we do? A gradual abandonment, letting people down to reality gently or total pull out of the rug beneath them.

IF they know, in my opinion, they would at very least stop the shunning those who also know. They would do so immediately and without a gentle abandonment—since the practice of disfellowshipping/disassociation as they exercise it is unscriptural and extremely harmful to families and support systems.

I am afraid they cannot be excused for judging others as deserving of destruction for things they themselves do. (Romans 2:1, 2)

Myself I'm not sure but it's something I've been thinking about recently as it helps me not to become too full of hatred for men in Brooklyn I've never met.

I am not full of hatred for the individual members of the Governing Body. I am full of hatred for the actions and dogma of the cultist leadership entity they collectively comprise, and hatred for that collective.

But, then again, I am not in any way convinced that they are backing down or becoming slowly more mainstream. I believe they are very quietly becoming much more nefarious in their protection of self-interest by broadening the application of the term "disassociation."

I will add: They told my parents and family and friends to reject me for the "gross wrong" of persistently challenging their doctrine. Can you show me that one in the Scriptures, Thomas? If they know they are full of it, this is unconscionable behavior.

Respectfully,
AuldSoul

ThomasCovenant

Hi

Thanks for reply AuldSoul. I agree with you. Please don't think I am trying to defend them.

I'm just asking what you as in everyone here would actually do if they were suddenly given absolute command of the Society.

Thanks

Thomas Covenant

Pahpa

I think I would encourage all JWs to re-examine the scriptures by putting emphasis on the teachings of Christ with regard to love, compassion, mercy, etc. rather than on scaring members with threats of the nearness of "the end." I would eliminate the cruel and unchristian practice of disfellowshipping and disassociation. I would then start dismantling the entire printing empire and spend the money on charitable causes. (Remember Christ's advice to the rich young ruler?) And at the meetings, I would encourage a free and open discussion on the scriptures and the meaning of them.

ninja

watch the "worldwide church of god" video on google video by hope ministries...its titled "called to be free"........I think the leadership should follow their example if they know it is all wrong

Nathan Natas

One thing they could do, IF they were sincere Christians, would be to CONFESS their sins and REPENT, and go asking the forgiveness of the membership, as the brave men of Herbert W. Armstrong's Worldwide Church of God did after their idiot leader (HWA) died.

THAT organization stopped in its tracks and changed direction. They suffered for it, loosing a large percentage of their "hard core" members who went on to form new groups to continue the adoration of HWA. But the important thing is that the leadership showed themselves to be better men than the leaders of the WTB&TS are capable of being.

garybuss

I'm thinking the Watch Tower conglomerate has a very successful business model. It's looking to me that they adopted a long term business goals and objectives plan back in the 90's and the plan has three legs. One is a business plan, one is a doctrinal plan, and three is a policy plan.

Part of the business plan called for: The building up of the Patterson and Wallkill communes and the selling off of part of the Brooklyn properties; The separation of the Governing Body from the corporations and the forming new firewall corporations in 2000; The reduction in printing and shipping expense by reducing printings of the Awake! and The Watchtower tabloids; and adoption of the folded tract campaign service model.

The doctrinal shifting is incremental and marginal and is only for removing past failed date setting problems like the generation of 1914 and the great crowd of 1935 as well as solidifying the appointment doctrine. Doctrine will become abstract, less prophecy and rely more on faith. Teachings will become harder to find rational disconfirmations for after corrections are made and accepted.

The policy plan is almost a plan without a plan. That's the fun one for me to watch. It's how they steer this huge ship. This thing is so big they have to start turning it a year and a half in advance now. Policy is a bigger problem for them than teachings and they don't seem to know it. It's by looking at policy that the factions become visible through the fog.

The Watch Tower looks much like the Catholic Church in that one cycle is the life span of the current Pope. One Watch Tower cycle is the life span of the dominant leader. Unlike the Catholic Church, the actual problem with the Watch Tower Corporation now is figuring out who is the current clear dominant leader.

Whoever is the leader thinks the solution to the continuity challenge is doctrinal and he's wrong. The current problems are all policy related and the solutions will all have to be policy related as well.

Zico

Shutting it all down straight away would be no good, as a new group would instantly be formed with the goal of taking advantage of 6 million confused individuals. The best way would be to try to copy the WWCOG situation, but see how they can improve on losing half their membership to opposing cults. The goal should be to save as many as possible.

Xena

They have gotten pretty good at passing off pretty much whatever they want to change as "new light". I don't see why they couldn't do this to get rid of some of the more restrictive/dangerous doctrine. Let em keep the paradise earth, no hell and stuff like that but say they got some "new light" that negates shunning, blood transfusions and maybe allows some holidays cause it sucks being a dub kid w/o them.

AuldSoul

If I were in their shoes, Thomas, I would immediately halt the absolute shunning of anyone and only recommend a cessation of spiritual communion with those who reject Christ. There is Scriptural grounds for this last one, although I believe even this was up to the determination of the individual congregant as to whether shunning was required in a specific case.

This would immediately release everyone from having to do what they said on pain of organizational disfellowhipping (<--- I spelled it right), and only those who needed the religion in the ways you suggest (to fill their emotional/socio-psychological needs) would soon be left.

If I were in their shoes I would feel the full weight of my error and would likely commit suicide. But ... then again ... I was once one of them and even that weight nearly crushed me. I am afraid I have little empathy to spare for those who are so self-absorbed that they no longer notice the real and lasting harm they cause others.

Respectfully,
AuldSoul

What would we like them to do? What would we do in their shoes?

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