Jehovah's great justice (page 2)

stark

If humans were made perfect and in gods image, how you could they act in an imperfect way? If they are flawed but made in Gods image, does this mean God is potentially flawed also?

God made humans humanly perfect, with the potential, or rather, the ability to sin. As for God...He is absolutely perfect, there is no potential for flaw.

Why did he create them perfect and then set out to test their perfection?

God created Adam and Eve with the ability to disobey God so that they could choose to love Him, and without the forbidden tree in the garden they would not have the opportunity to love Him. Would Adam and Eve be perfect humans if they had no choice?

Why did he feel the need to answer Satans supposed questioning of mans need of God, in such a long and perverse manner, which has led to endless, torturous suffering for many of mankind? Can you really associate this with a 'God' of love?

I hate to be numb here, but I'm not certain what you mean by this question. I'm assuming that what you mean by "Satans supposed questioning of mans need of God" is Satan's discussion with Eve, but where did God answer him with men suffering.

However, God had warned Adam and Eve that there would be consequences, for their partaking of the tree of the knowledge of good and evil.

I do leave room that I've totally missed what you were talking about.

Tell me given this situation what would you have done if you were God?

Remember as God, you are perfectly Holy and cannot have sin in your presence, you are also perfectly Just and must punish any wrong doing, and you are perfectly Loving and love the people you made.

Biblically God satisfies all of these by sending His One and Only Son to take the punishment we deserve. It's at the cross sin is punished, and love is given.

There are many more questions I could ask you on this subject.

Bring on the questions

choosing life

Zico,

No, tell me it's not so. Is that why they ask those questions and then proceed to tell us what we can and can't do or throw in some crazy new rule or doctrine?

Next, you'll be telling me the experiences are made up too!

Zico

Absolutely not.....do you?

Next, you'll be telling me the experiences are made up too!

Stark,

I hate to be numb here, but I'm not certain what you mean by this question. I'm assuming that what you mean by "Satans supposed questioning of mans need of God" is Satan's discussion with Eve, but where did God answer him with men suffering.

I think Fifi was referring to the Sovereignty issue that JWs believe in, but I don’t believe other Christians believe in a Sovereignty issue.

Remember as God, you are perfectly Holy and cannot have sin in your presence, you are also perfectly Just and must punish any wrong doing, and you are perfectly Loving and love the people you made.

When God punished angelic wrongdoing, he didn’t punish any angels who had stayed faithful to him. When he punished human wrongdoing, he punished all future generations before they were born, before they even had to chance to commit a wrong. Does this really seem fair to you?

Biblically God satisfies all of these by sending His One and Only Son to take the punishment we deserve. It's at the cross sin is punished, and love is given.

Why do we deserve it? Is it because we sin? But God has made it so we can’t possibly avoid sin. This would be like me cutting your legs off, and then punishing you for not being able to walk. (And then cutting my own son’s legs off to redeem it! LOL!) Once again, I ask, does this really seem fair to you?

Hecklerboy

God created Adam and Eve with the ability to disobey God so that they could choose to love Him, and without the forbidden tree in the garden they would not have the opportunity to love Him. Would Adam and Eve be perfect humans if they had no choice?

This doesn't make much since. It's like me having children, then telling them that they have to love me or I will kill them. And if they happen to have children before I kill them I will make like hard for them. How could a child love a parent out of fear?

Another question is, why didn't God just kill Adam and Eve immediately and start over instead of letting them live for hundreds of years and have and undetermined amount of children? Not very smart if you ask me.

OnTheWayOut

God got bored easily. He actually only made Michael the Archangel. Then he let Michael
do the creating. Michael made the angels.

They (God and Michael) wanted to try something different, so they created the physical earth and
the heavens (stars and galaxies), and then wanted to create something special. They put life on
the earth, but had gotten bored with creating virtually the same thing again and again. They
decided to make the "life" self-perpetuating instead of making every last thing.

Satan and the demons sinned, humans sinned. "Hmm, let's see if this can entertain us. We are
bored, again. Satan might not want to play if we kick him out right away, but the humans will have
no choice."

Everytime it looked like Satan had an edge in this game, God changed the rules. There was the flood, and
the manipulation of whole armies of people to bend the rules. Michael might have tapped God's shoulder
and reminded him about that "bruise-on-the head-and-heel prophesy" so He fulfilled it.

bluebell

": 1914?? God damned Satan straight away and punished him and those who followed him by kicking him out of heaven."

No he didnt, Satan still had access to heaven. See eg of Job also Im sure the point of access to heaven before 1914 has been discussed in WBTS literature. I was bought up to believe that before 1914 he had access to heaven, otherwise how could he be kicked of of heaven in 1914?

I think Satan and demons were cut off from gods love/sustinence straight off but definitely still had right to roam until 1914.

And the point still stands - Not all angels were punished, all humans are.

Zico

Everytime it looked like Satan had an edge in this game, God changed the rules.

Yep, Jehovah cheated, he lets man rule themselves, but before doing so, he takes away their ability to rule themselves, by introducing imperfection, viruses, natural disasters etc... In Jehovah's paradise, he's going to take this all away, (including everyone who disagrees with him, imagine how much easier it would be to run a country where everyone who disagreed with you was killed) So he gets rid off all the hard parts of running the world. Jehovah has Government easy. Bluebell, good post!

Satanus

Remember as God, you are perfectly Holy and cannot have sin in your presence,

Then, why did he keep satan around, to come and go into his holy court for thousands of yrs?

you are also perfectly Just and must punish any wrong doing, and you are perfectly Loving and love the people you made.

Why can he not forgive? Killing adam and eve and jesus so that others can live isn't forgiving. It's demanding of payment in full, keeping his books perfectly balanced. He's a beancounter god, not a love god.

S

Gary1914

It's the idea that Jehovah had to test his creations to see that they loved him that gets me.

Why did he have to test them? He created them, he was their father, he loved them and they loved him. Why did they have to be tested? It seems strange to me. I have children and I cannot imagine giving them a test to see if they loved me. Was it just obedience? What child listens to their parent all the time. Why couldn't he just forgive them and move on. Why all the drama? "Do what I tell you to do or I'll kill you." Did he really love them when he could give them an ultimatum like that?

But God loves drama doesn't he? In addition he appears to be needy, demanding constant praise and a bit petulant. It's little wonder why Satan and his cohorts rebeled against him.

proplog2

But Angels don't excrete odiferous solid waste capsules.

God WANTED creatures that had a big tube and some auxilary tubes they needed to fill and empty.

And God wanted man to be very careful about certain "fun" tubes.

It's all tube management.

Jehovah's great justice

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