Ex-Jehovah’s Witnesses—Angels With Dirty Faces?

by The wanderer 18 years ago 13 Replies latest 18 years ago jw friends

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  The wanderer 18 years ago

  Ex-Jehovah’s Witnesses— Angels With Dirty Faces?

  Anyone who is familiar with the Jehovah’s Witnesses
  religion knows how the Watchtower Society views “fallen angels”.
  
  They view individuals who leave the “truth” as weak malcontents that share no appreciation for God or spiritual matters.

  Is There Any Truth Regarding Their Viewpoint?

  Overall, do some individuals leave looking for an “escape clause” to not do the right thing?

  For example, the Bible condemns fornication and other morally reproachable
  matters. Do individuals engage in these practices to become deliberately dis-
  approved?

  What is your viewpoint on the matter?

  Respectfully,

  The Wanderer

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  Pahpa 18 years ago

  Wanderer

  I believe that the Watchtower Society has lost some of its best and brightest members. (Ray Franz, Ed Dunlap, Jim Penton, etc.) Many of these were not "malcontents." They wanted a serious investigation of the teachings of the Watchtower to see if they really were Bible based. They had no intention of leaving the organization. Rather, they were forced out by a paranoid leadership.

  It is true that some leaving the organization do so for a selfish purposes. They don't want to be morally restricted by Chrisitan principles. These not only reject the Watchtower but also the Bible as well. They want an excuse for leading immoral lives.

  Unfortunately, when the Watchtower condemns former members it paints with a very broad brush. It serves to separate any of its present members from doing some serious research into the real "truth."

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  LongHairGal 18 years ago

  Wanderer (Rich),

  Like your new pix.

  As far as people leaving because they want an excuse to commit immorality, this may be true in some cases especially young persons who have not seen anything of life yet. Maybe I am wrong, but I think most who have joined the religion as adults after having been in the "world" don't usually leave for this reason because they already know the "score". I am an example. But, if you talk to the busybodies in the hall, you will hear speculation that I "must" have a boyfriend. They have to tell themselves that anybody who leaves must have a problem with their "flesh". It could not "possibly" be because there is something wrong with the religion. This is something they cannot come to terms with so they have to paint everybody who leaves with the same brush. Surely you have heard the expression "loose conduct" that is applied to persons who are reproved or df'd because something they said didn't sit well with the judges there. So they say the person is out because of "loose conduct". This is dishonest, in my opinion, because it gives the impression to people there that the person committed immorality. They WANT people to think this. They reason that nobody will inquire about a person with a problem with immorality. Whereas, if the person left for some other reason, there would be curiosity and people would want to know "what was wrong..." They do not want people to know that you left because there was something wrong with the religion.

  I am sure more and more people are leaving, not because they want to run out and commit fornication, but because of policies and doctrines they find fault with.

  LHG

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  ButtLight 18 years ago

  Overall, do some individuals leave looking for an “escape clause” to not do the right thing?

  Yes, but then there are some of us who got a taste of doing the wrong thing and liked it, so never went back!

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  avidbiblereader 18 years ago

  I am sure more and more people are leaving, not because they want to run out and commit fornication, but because of policies and doctrines they find fault with.

  Very well put LHG, I think everyone leaves for their own reasons, IF the WT wants to malign these people as bad, at least they are not living as hypocrits, as many of us know there is many in the halls doing things wrong but no openly as they are afraid of the repercusions, perhaps they idea of God is not in their heads and hearts like they outwardly proclaim.

  But for whatever a person leaves doesn't make them a bad person, God and Christ will judge that, but I guess when you are telling everyone that you are all but perfect, you have to make some excuse why people don't want to hang out with you.

  abr

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  LtCmd.Lore 18 years ago

  Well, in my case they are half correct. I'm not weak, nor am I a malcontent. (Def: "Dissatisfied with existing conditions"... I on the other hand, am very happy with my current condition as an atheist.)

  However I do share no appreciation for god or spiritual matters... But frankly I don't care what they think I am.

  Besides, I know of plenty of people on this board who believe in the Bible, Jesus, God and all that stuff, but reject the WT version. They are not weak, or malcontents, nor do they lack appreciation for God or spiritual matters.

  They don't reject god, they reject these guys:

  LtCmd.Lore

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  purplesofa 18 years ago

  For example, the Bible condemns fornication and other morally reproachable
  matters. Do individuals engage in these practices to become deliberately dis-
  approved?

  What is your viewpoint on the matter?

  My viewpoint is that not all behaviour that is "morally reproachable" has anything to do with being moral.

  They view individuals who leave the “truth” as weak malcontents that share no appreciation for God or spiritual matters.

  I think they don't have a grasp on reality anymore. Some people are so riddled with guilt, hurt, anger, that they commit suicide when leaving the truth from the judgement of the bible and what "they" say are individuals that immoral and weak malcontents. I dont see forgiving 7 times 77 times, an understanding of human behavior to problems. Reap what you sow.

  Someone that is fallen is weak but that has nothing to do with lack of appreciation for GOD or anything spiritual. It quite frankly is part of the growing process that is natural to all creation.

  purps

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  misocup 18 years ago

  I am sure more and more people are leaving, not because they want to run out and commit fornication, but because of policies and doctrines they find fault with.

  I'd have to agree with the above.

  I left because I found it was not the "truth" at all. In fact, I've come to know that the Bible was in fact written by men who claim divine guidance, but I don't know those guys so why should I believe them? Also, the Bible has been re-written and re-interpreted so many times there is no reason to believe it resembles the original texts at all. The Bible from God? I do not believe it.

  So I left for reasons of belief and faith, but I was disfellowshipped because of the "flesh".

  It's a case of the WTS and the Elders not wanting to see the real reasons for things. The real truth.

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  done4good 18 years ago

  Good topic, Wanderer.

  Many people who leave, don't necessarily leave because of doctrinal issues, or because they want to live "immoral" lives, (like myself). They just come to a point in thier lives, where they strongly sense something is amiss in the organization, and just stop. Too many issues, and very little seems to make any sense. When one comes to that division in the road, it is quite possible that he/she may find themselves doing things that they otherwise wouldn't have done, when "in". Those in this category often come to point after a short while when they want answers. I know that is what happened to me, and I ended up finding this place. Only then did I learn of the doctrinal issues, child molestation issues, etc. What I learned rather quickly, was that I wasn't crazy, and there really was something very wrong in the org.

  j

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  nvrgnbk 18 years ago

  Great topic wanderer,

  It's one I've given much thought to, both as an elder and now as an inactve fader. I think there is some activity on both sides of this issue. Please allow me to elaborate.

  1. I believe that many(there is no way to obtain statistics on this but I base my opinion on much experience and anecdotal evidence) who are disfellowshipped each year for "immorality" are in fact persons who have come to feel that they no longer wish to be Witnesses. Due to the stigma associated with apostasy and "no longer believing this is the truth" it's easier for them to commit an act they would not normally commit as a means to be "released" from the religion, cult, high-control group, or whatever else one wishes to call the WTS. This is tragic. I have seen marriages destroyed for this very reason. It was actually easier for a person to betray their spouse than admit to them that they no longer wanted to be a Witness. But the truth of the matter cannot be denied. There is no greater shame in the JW world than to be labeled an apostate.

  2. I believe there is also a group that leaves without having participated in any "immorality" because of doctrinal issues or they simply no longer believe, and cannot or will not remain in the org. for family or friends. I know this to be true because I am part of this group. For this group things may become complicated with regards to morality. If one has become convinced that the organization is not reality-based and may even feel the same about the Bible, perhaps even questioning the existence of God, morality becomes more difficult to define. In time, one may commit an act they would not have prior to coming to certain realizations. The org. loves to see this happen as it appears to bolster their view that everyone is a closet slime-ball saved only by association with them. It also appears to weaken the arguments of the "apostate" as it is suggested that the seeking of carnal pleasure was the "real" motive all along. But the real reason for the divergence from one's previous moral path is not that one set out to experience "forbidden fruit" but rather one now realizes that the "fruit" is not in fact "forbidden." The ex-believer now finds himself on a slippery slope. And that is what many now find themselves negotiating.

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