Everyone has probably felt that they wanted to stir things up or just wake people up. It does not work. And it is not worth the effort. It would be best to just opt out of any personal meetings with them. You don't have to tell them your personal thoughts.
Going to see the elders, don't know how do drop the bomb.
by Anti-Christ 47 Replies latest social current
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Gregor
Kinda surprised and disappointed by how many here recommend slipping away with your tail between your legs. The JWs love that. You'd regret it the rest of your life. I say give 'em hell and walk away doing your best John Wayne swagger. You will always be proud of yourself for speaking out. F--- 'em all!
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asleif_dufansdottir
For me, personally, I see the best way of taking the power back is by short-circuiting their rules - the rule that says there needs to be a meeting...and the rule that says they have the authority to call you to it.
When they tell you they want to have a meeting tell them you see no reason for the meeting as they have no authority in the matter.
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jayhawk1
Kinda surprised and disappointed by how many here recommend slipping away with your tail between your legs. The JWs love that. You'd regret it the rest of your life. I say give 'em hell and walk away doing your best John Wayne swagger. You will always be proud of yourself for speaking out. F--- 'em all! (posted by Gregor)
As much as I respect Gregor's opinion. All I ever said was, "No Thanks, I will come back to the Kingdom Hall when I'm ready." This seemed to get my point out without causing anybody trouble. Furthermore, it does not feel like I left with my tail between my legs. I'm out with my head held high, because I'm the bigger person in the Elder's little power trip.
An Elder has not been to my home in almost 7 years since I said that.
Now, if your goal is to get that wonderful little announcement that, "___________ is no longer one of Jehovah's Witnesses," at the service meeting. Then I say go for it!
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Qcmbr
To take control of this situation I'd recommend:
Arrange the meeting time and place in a location of your choosing.
Invite some witnesses of the non Jehovah kind to watch - maybe even get one dressed up as a legal representative or if your really lucky and have a lawyer as a friend invite them over. This way they can't outnumber you and since its your meeting you get to set the agenda and attendees.
Tell them you'd like to read your reasons for leaving out and that you'll invite questions at the end (stops them generating a debate about details and keeps them listening to the end.)
Write a small set of bulletpoint statements of the real issues you have to read out. Photocopy this and send it to each member of the congregation with a cover letter informing them that you'd like them to know why you are leaving from you and not have to guess what you might have done if they merely hear from the stand. Inform each member of the congregation that you would love to keep in touch with them on a personal level and that you bear no ill will to any of them.
Don't argue with the elders over anything, be calm and reasonible. Don't dispute anything with them except any false statements they may make about you or what they assume you believe. Let them know they are welcome to come round as friends any time they wish but not as representatives of the Watchtower.
Play word games with them that do not allow them to argue you are turning your back on anything important(i.e. say that you are not yet certain on whether you wish to be a witness of Jehovah but that you are certain you do not want to be a Watchtower magazine salesperson.) Keep the emphasis on the question of whether the watchtower organisation is itself important. Point out that you understand that they may indeed lie to you now in theocratic warfare but that you are now free to tell the truth. Refer to them as salesmen, unpaid labour, post-millerites etc..
Finally the most devastating thing you can do is point out personal reasons for leaving - lack of love, observed bad behaviour in the cong, magazine study not scripture study, doctrinal change, shrinking cong size, prophesy failure, lack of intellectual substance to arguments (607), severe doubts over shunning and blood policy, annoyance over lost educational and career opportunities and last of all no actual charity observed. Choose as appropriate for your personal experiences.
That should be enough and since you posted it out as well you've covered them getting up and walking out halfway through. -
Gregor
I want to leave with a bang, I want them to have a bad after taste in their brains. So I'm asking for suggestions.
This statement, not to mention the title of Anti Christs thread, makes it clear that he was not looking for a way to avoid confronting the elders, rather, just the opposite. I think some replies here are missing his point.
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journey-on
Gregor........I think Qcmbr's suggestion will leave the "bad taste in their brains" better than any kind of out-of-control antics.
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Gregor
Journey, your post implies that I suggested "out of control antics". I did no such thing.
Actually Q's suggestion is fine but I think Anti would be making a mistake to get into a detailed dialogue with a bunch of elders. That would be futile and pointless. They can talk in circles all day long. Thus, I suggested that he TELL them his reasons and then cut the meeting short before the double talk gets going.
Why send a copy of his DA letter to others? We know that the elders will only announce that he has DA'd or that he has been DF'd, leaving the cong. to assume the worst about him. By sending a copy of his letter to other members of the cong. he takes control away from them and has an opportunity to possibly wake someone up.
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inbyathread
If you haven't already, download a copy of the flock book and read up on the section on judicial hearings. Be completely familiar with their tactics. A good lawyer already knows the answers before he asks the questions.
Take along a tape or digital recorder. Let them see it and when they say that you cannot have that you can ask them if this is a judicial hearing because the flock book doesn't mention recordings being prohibited at other meetings. They will force the issue so don't worry about it at that time. Keep the recorder off. Now you pull out the pad and pen and document who is there and that you cannot utilize the recorder and are therefore going to use paper and pen as a backup.
Don't answer their questions but keep requiring them to answer yours. If they insist you answer them just use this answer for all of those questions. "That is a difficult question to answer. Allow me to do some research on that and I'll get back to you on it." Write down the question and who asked it. Take your time get the question written down correctly. Read it back to them and ask if that is what they want answered.
Use these phrases
What I hear you say is that ...
Is that what you mean?"Write down everything they and you say. At least one of them will be writing (documenting) the meeting, you are just doing the same. "I see you writing down my answers on a paper. Will I be getting a copy of that for my records?"
Don't call them brother, use their first name.
If they use generic words like "We've heard that you have committed some serious sin"
When some have left the truth or God's organization they revert back to God defiling practices, are you doing such things.
Have them qualify the source. If they refuse (they will) you can say things to the effect that:
"Repeating things like that amounts to SLANDER and I will use all legal means necessary to keep my name and character free of harmful defamatory remarks." and repeat your request to know who said it.
Ask is there is a clergy/laity distinction within the congregation.
Then why do elders use laws designed to help christendoms clergy? Certainly by following Jehovah's standard found in the Bible, you wouldn't need any protection that Cesear could offer, would you?
Hope this helps. PM me if you need any furthur methods of aggravating them.
Since it has taken me awhile to type this up. I'm sure there will be simular ways to antagonize them.
Good Luck.
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kwr
Tell them that you love them whenever they ask a question.