I agree it is extremely important to be accurate when discussing this issue. BUT I do not agree that saying "an NGO registered for membership with the UN DPI" is incorrect. If I buy a business membership with Sam's Club I could accurately say I registered my business for membership at Sam's. It does not mean I am a part owner of Sam's, just that I belong to the club. Registered = received approval on its application. Another example: I established a nonprofit org that is going to register for membership in a national organization. It has been a nonprofit org always, but registering (or applying) for membership in the national organization simply makes me a member of that other organization. A membership application is the same as a registration form in this context.
Watchtower--NGO With WANGO!
by Dogpatch 64 Replies latest jw friends
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misocup
I know it's a picky thing, but too many people say the the WTS became a member of the United Nations. No...only national governments can become a member of the UN, just as only NGOs can become an associate member of the UN/DPI
If we are going to try to reason with family/friends that the WTS is hypocritical by using its involvement with the UN/DPI, we need to get our facts straight and we need to use the correct language in describing the affliation.
I agree with this. I developed a website for a affiliate of the UN/NGO/DPI. The application process was quite involved for them. They had to document how they support the goals of the United Nations. It's not a simple little thing becoming an associate. Does anyone have access to the application process? It may be helpful to post it somewhere.
Being a member of the UN - Governments
Being an affiliate/associate member of the UN/DPI - Non Governmental, but supportive of the United Nations goals.
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jimbo
Hello all!
Who said that AuldSoul stole a wrist watch??? What country did that alleged incident occur in?? Was that correct information??
On a more serious note WTBS and Wango.... Probably not. AuldSoul stole a wrist watch...Probably not.
One question that troubles me. Someone intimated that The Watchtower under other of their corporate names in other countries also became associate members of the UN's DPI. Is that true??? Can that be docmnented???
Perhaps I should ask this in another thread. But if anyone knows please let me know. Thank You!!!
Jimbo (of the Question the evidence class) -
heathen
From here on in I'm on the side that will assume the WTBTS is guilty until it can be proven otherwise . Giving them any doubt in the past has always been a waste of effort . I've seen alot of lame arguments trying to defend their actions on the board , for a religion that would have DF hearings if you walked into a church of christiandom to even use the UN library would be unacceptible by their own standards they force on everybody else. It looks like they are just trying to confuse everybody with legal mumbo jumbo until you get frustrated and just ignore the issue altogether.
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MinisterAmos
No they are not with WANGO. It's a stupid prank to discredit them. I wouldn't doubt that a witness did it just so he could laugh his azz off over how much attention the 'postates give his little joke.
<<rolls eyes and moves on>>
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minimus
Auld Soul, you express with clarity the basic understanding of NGOs. Why do so few people understand this??? It's beyond me.
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heathen
Well I'm still confused . Sounds like AuldSoul is saying all religious groups are NGO by default without any action on their part such as swearing an oath of loyalty or agreements .
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AuldSoul
rebel8,
I know it is a fine point of legal distinctions, but it is enough to be branded a manipulative liar by JWs who want to find error in statement.
Yesterday, I overheard a 14-year-old say to a 12-year-old, "No, I don't need any help. But I could use some assistance." These two are equivalent terms and the distinction is non-existent. It was hilarious.
However, it is not the NGO who registers themselves with DPI. Only the DPI can register NGOs, and they only do so for NGOs whose applications they approve. On the other side of the issue, an NGO cannot withdraw their own registration. They did not register so they may not withdraw. They must submit another application for termination of their membership and it also is subject to review and decision by the DPI.
Registration and application are not equivalent terms. Registration implies no distinction in relative position whereas application is always from inferior to superior, this is implied by the fact that applications require approval (before a registration occurs) whereas registrations do not. With a registration, the registering party simply informs a registrar that they are added to the group, perhaps on the condition of paying money. With an application, even if money is offered the registration will only occur on the condition of approval from the party accepting the application.
The reason this becomes an important distinction in the matter of their Associate membership is that registrations can be required by governments for all sorts of reasons but no one ever can be compelled to apply. It demonstrates unequivocally that they willingly chose to join the UN/DPI, therefore they cannot use the excuse of submission to superior authority in this matter. Their letters demonstrate an ardent desire to confuse the point of registration versus application so that they can use the excuse of submission.
heathen,
All non-governmental organizations that are non-profits (NPOs) are automatically NGOs, as are most that are categorized as not-for-profit (NFPOs), whether religious or not. An example is the company I used to work for: National Ground Water Association. They are an NGO. They are also an Associate member of the UN/DPI and enjoy consultative status to UN/ECOSOC.
Respectfully,
AuldSoul -
misocup
From here on in I'm on the side that will assume the WTBTS is guilty until it can be proven otherwise .
I agree.
The guilt lies in the association with the UN/DPI. In order for an NGO to gain affiliation, they must prove their organization supports the long range goals of the UN. If it can be proven the WTS is affilited with the UN/DPI, then that is proof of WTS support for the United Nations. -You shall know them by their works-
Below is part of the letter sent to the UN from the President of the org. site I manage justifying their application and entry into the UN/DPI as affiliates/associates:
There are implicit and legitimate universal spiritual and ethical value judgments applicable to all peoples underlying the foundation of the United Nations Organization. The international community will always run into difficulties in establishing the universality of basic human rights in some nations, societies and cultures unless their particular religious or secular ideologies to accept first that there are certain extraordinary experiences which suggest the same universal human values. The right of the international community to “impose” a UN “Universal Declaration of Human Rights” or “UN Millennium Development Goals” may otherwise be challenged.
Since its foundation in 1975 the international objective of the IIIHS has been to establish among leading scholars, scientists, and religious leaders from many nations the acceptance of the fact that there have been strong spiritual motivations which are common to all peoples, and cultures. These common spiritual motivations justifiably and correctly – lie behind the “Universal Declaration of Human Rights” of the United Nations, and the present movement to establish and achieve the current UN Millennium Development Goals. -
misocup
The reason this becomes an important distinction in the matter of their Associate membership is that registrations can be required by governments for all sorts of reasons but no one ever can be compelled to apply. It demonstrates unequivocally that they willingly chose to join the UN/DPI, therefore they cannot use the excuse of submission to superior authority in this matter. Their letters demonstrate an ardent desire to confuse the point of registration versus application so that they can use the excuse of submission.
Absolutely correct.
They cannot be required to become UN/DPI associates, they must PROVE eligibility AND allegiance.