wow, what a response! (page 5)

Here are just a few issues for your friend to think about. I've posted these elsewhere before. Specifically for Madd as well. He likes to hide from all this info over and over again though.

Your JW friend has not a CLUE... yet!!

The end of the system was predicted, in writing, in these years: 1874, 1875, 1881, 1888, 1914, 1915, 1918, (could occur in 1920), 1925, ("resurrection of Princes" in 1929), 1932, 1940, ("any day now" in 1942), ("why not now" in 1951), 1975, and before the generation that was born in 1914 dies, which was dropped in 1996 after it was clearly another false prediction. Every one of these predictions, in writing, has proved false. People sold homes, gave up opportunities to start families, secure employment, gave up opportunities for an education and instead spread a message of doom that was simply untrue with each prediction made. All of these failed.

*** A blood *transfusion* is not the same as eating or drinking blood as has been illustrated with the: "If a doctor told you to abstain from alcohol, but instead of drinking it, you transfused it into your veins..." illustration that the society often uses. If a person was starving to death and was given multiple blood transfusions instead of food, he would still die. A transfusion of blood replaces the volume of blood lost (much like replacing an organ) which is needed to sustain life, nothing more. No nourishment is gained by a blood transfusion, as would be the case when eating or drinking the blood, which is forbidden. This illustration often used by the society does apply with alcohol and other digestible foods, but not for blood. It simply stays in your system indefinitely.

*** The scriptures in both the Hebrew and Greek sections of the bible, which say: "blood must be drained out" and to, "abstain from... blood" were always referring directly to the eating or drinking of animal blood. The blood of the animal that had been killed was to be "poured out" rather than eaten or drank. This token act of faith demonstrated to Jehovah that the life that had been taken belongs to him. The blood of the animal represents the life of that animal. Humans do have the right to take animals for food only because the creator allows us to do so. Pouring out the blood first, acknowledges this arrangement. By including modern day blood transfusions in the current application of these verses however (which is not the same as eating or drinking of animal blood), the society is going beyond what is actually written in its application. In addition, the one supplying the blood for a transfusion has not died at all, which was always the case when an animal was bled. A "living" donor instead provides the needed volume of blood-fluid that has been lost for another "living" individual. And in many cases over the years, as a last resort this has been and can still be a life-saving medical act. In other cases by refusing this particular medical treatment because of our stand against blood transfusions, lives have been and will continue to be lost. Is this what Jehovah wants, and is this premature loss of life really necessary?

*** We can also learn something about this from Jesus very own example. Jesus was also willing to perform miracles on the Sabbath (something against the mosaic law) in order to save lives, or even just heal the sick. Would not Jesus have made an exception then to a dietary rule in order to save a human life? In Luke 14:5-6, the bible account says: "And he said to them: "Who of YOU, if his son or bull falls into a well, will not immediately pull him out on the sabbath day?" 6 And they were not able to answer back on these things." The account in Mathew 12:11 goes even further, it says: "So they (Pharisees) asked him "Is it lawful to cure on the Sabbath?" that they might get an accusation against him. 11 He said to them: "Who will be the man among YOU that has one sheep and, if this falls into a pit on the Sabbath, will not get hold of it and lift it out? 12 All considered, of how much more worth is a man than a sheep! So it is lawful to do a fine thing on the Sabbath." If Jesus was willing to value the life of an ANIMAL enough to rescue that animal's life despite this "work" being done on a Sabbath, how much more so then should the life of a human being be given priority over the strict interpretation of the law? Well, we need not really ask since Jesus answered this himself when he said in verse 12, "All considered, of how much more worth is a man than a sheep!". Yes rescuing a sheep from a pit on the sabbath is the loving and merciful thing to do. Additionally, Jesus performed many other miraculous works on the Sabbath. Yet to work on the Sabbath was to bring the death penalty upon oneself. And in fact, the scriptures actually record this penalty being meted out to a Sabbath violator. (See Exodus 35:2; Numbers 15:32-36. Here we see clear evidence though that Jesus appreciated the principle that love triumphs over law. That when life is at stake, (even an animal's life), rules can be set aside as circumstances require. LIFE is valuable and precious. Jesus showed this love for life and people over and over. While by contrast the oppressive, rule-keeping religious leaders often missed the entire purpose of the law. By not allowing a blood transfusion to be given, especially in last-resort situations, but rather allowing these ones to die instead, is the proper "respect" for life being shown as Jesus clearly demonstrated? Imagine if this involved allowing one of "our own" to die due to such a strict stand by the society.

*** I've also appreciated another example that demonstrates this same "principle" of Jesus' valuing a person's life over the written law. It had to do with the woman who had a flow of blood for 12 years. Under the Mosaic Law a running discharge made her "unclean", and anyone even touching her would also have to wash and be considered unclean until evening. However, she went even further than this by actually touching Jesus garment secretly in hopes of getting healed without anyone knowing. Jesus as we know, perceived that power went out from him and realized what she had done. Others too were watching. Notice though, that rather than condemn this woman for what she did, Jesus instead compassionately tells her: "Your faith has made you well. Go in peace, be in good health from your grievous sickness...." Once again we can see the spirit of the law (and the value of a human life) taking precedence over the supposed letter of the law, which the woman had clearly broken.

So then, when I add up all of the facts listed above here; that blood transfusions are not the same as eating blood. That the scriptures themselves are always referring to the "eating or drinking" of animal blood that is forbidden (not transfusions). How Paul shows at 1 Corinthians. 8:4-8 that the Acts 15:29 command is not all encompassing command but had a particular purpose. That Saul's men were not killed after eating blood. How the strictest of Jews today allow blood transfusions. That Jesus clearly demonstrated how life (even that of an animal) was more important than a narrow, strict interpretation of the law, with the "animal that fell into a pit on the Sabbath" illustration he used, and the "Woman with a flow of blood" real-life example. How the one donating blood is a LIVE donor and offering this blood to another person that is also alive and in need. That the Society was wrong before about forbidding vaccinations and organ transplants and then reversed these decisions. Many loyal Witnesses nonetheless died from such stands. And, the Society has now changed its position once again, instead of saying no to all blood, to now say "fractions" of blood are acceptable, even though the particular fractions approved and disapproved seem to have no particular rhyme or reason and we are still not allowed to donate blood nor store their own. Though we can use cow's blood. It seems fairly easy for me then, to come to the conclusion that I can no longer support the society's position on blood transfusions today. In fact I believe it was an erroneous decision from the beginning, and has only been made even more confusing and unstable with the latest "fractions" adjustments.

Despite the numerous errors in doctrine, medical mistakes, weird science end of the world false predictions and unscriptural blood transfusion bans that fill its pages of history, the society still DEMANDS full and complete support of its policies and doctrines today. Notice this comment from a 5/1/72 WT (page 272): "That they [Jehovah's Witness] must adhere absolutely to the decisions and scriptural understandings of the Society because God has given it this authority over his people."

So, in the end, we have what many would consider as extremely damaging, impossible to refute facts that thoroughly undermine the Watchtower Society's claim that it alone is God's one true faith on earth today. That core belief is in my opinion the GLUE that keeps everything else together for JW's. Without THAT foundation of belief that this religious organization IS the one truth on earth, everything else involved with the religion begins to fall apart. The willingness to be loyal despite doubts lessens and lessens. If somebody, or some thing comes along and actually hammers away at that one major, core-belief (that this alone is God's Organization), if something is learned that completely challenges this foundational trust in the WT Society, then from my experience, the entire JW belief system can collapse like a house of cards. For example the demands of their highly structured routine THEN become too much to bear. The having to shun good friends and family members (perhaps permanently) no longer makes any sense. The many sacrifices such as giving up holidays, birthdays, voting, college, sports, casual dating, facial hair, yoga, etc etc start to look foolish and perhaps even embarrassing. Allowing a loved one to die by refusing a blood transfusion now seems preposterous. Watching a good,moral person be labeled and shunned solely based on their walking away from a religious institution now seems grossly unfair and extremely unchristian. Once again though, by fully believing that the WT Society IS God's True Faith all of these things are tolerable. Take that faith away and none of it makes sense any longer.

When I personally learned about the mistakes on Vaccinations and Organ Transplants it simply damaged the credibility of the organization as a whole. It was at that point that an honest, THOROUGH examination of the Watchtower Society began on my part. An examination that only made things much, much worse in the end. If this is God's true and only channel, how then can they be so wrong, so often, on doctrine, medical issues, end of the world predictions, and yet still demand complete obedience from its members or face risk of complete shunning? This is also why I chose to leave the faith altogether one year ago. The bible has no such list of wacky opinions, medical blunders or false prophecies despite being written thousands of years ago. The Watchtower history on the other hand is FILLED with these very things; wacky ideas, medical embarrassments and many false end of the world statements. All written within the last 100 or so years. This is a huge problem.

In addition to all of the past mistakes and embarassing writings, there is also still the current list of issues. Here are just a few you can ask your JW friend about:

CURRENTLY Witnesses cannot formally leave the WT Society without being shunned and punished by all JW's, including your own family for the rest of their life.

CURRENTLY NO brother wearing a beard is allowed congregational privileges. This policy is actually a CONTRAST to bible teachings

CURRENTLY NO Witness is allowed to celebrate his or anybody's birthday without risk of expulsion. This policy is found nowhere in the bible.

CURRENTLY NO Witness is allowed to vote without risk of being expelled. This policy is found nowhere in the bible.

CURRENTLY NO Witness can celebrate Mothers Day Fathers Day, Thanksgiving, New Years Day 4th of July or many other holidays without risk of being expelled. Not found in the bible.

CURRENTLY NO Witness is allowed to work as a police officer or any other occupation where he carries a firearm and remain exemplary (or be used in the cong). Not in the bible. Used as a protection and to maintain order.

CURRENTLY NO Witness that plays sports in school, becomes a cheerleader or joins after school clubs is viewed favorably.

CURRENTLY ALL Sisters are expected to wear dresses to all meetings and field service. No pants, jumpsuits, shorts etc. allowed. Not found in the bible.
CURRENTLY NO Witness can play the lottery without risk of expulsion. Nowhere found in the bible

CURRENTLY NO Witness is allowed to participate in Martial Arts or Yoga. This policy is found nowhere in the bible.

CURRENTLY NO Witness that owns his own business can perform any services on church or military institutions. This policy is found nowhere in the bible

CURRENTLY NO JW that averages less than double digits in the ministry qualifies for congregational responsibilities. (You can dip occasionally below but not on an average basis).

CURRENTLY one cannot accept a whole blood transfusion without being disfellowshipped even if dying is the likely result. Yet one can accept certain fractions of blood, even though other smaller oftentimes more vital fractions are not allowed. JW's do use these fractions taken from the worlds blood supply, often in great quantity, yet are not allowed to donate blood back into this very same blood supply they have taken from. And CURRENTLY Witnesses are not even allowed to withdraw and store their OWN blood for surgery or other emergencies.

CURRENTLY there is the Watctower's official website page of hypocrisy where all others are encouraged to examine their own faith, be willing to make a stand, even if different yet if a Witness does this very same thing they will be expelled.

www.watchtower.org/librar...cle_03.htm

CURRENTLY no bible study is told of all the past medical mistakes that cost thousands of lives, nor that the JW's mis-predicted the end of the world a dozen times, nor that thousands of brothers went to prison for refusing alternative service for 50 years before being made "conscience" matters. They are also never told that if you choose to leave the organization you will be shunned for the rest of your life unless you come back in full agreement with all current teachings. Nor are they ever told they cannot disagree with any current teachings. Bible studies will never know these things. I have personally found this out the hard way.

This will do for starters. Pick whatever you think will catch his attention. There is no chance that the JW's are God's organization today. I disassociated one year ago, after being a 16 year Witness and elder.

All the best,

Vinny

wow, what a response!

Vinny

Vinny

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