I am new here, so I know I missed this being discussed in earlier threads......anyway I remember how prominently the image in Daniels dream was being portrayed in public talks and books...especially when Russia was a world power. Since the breakup of that country, what is the new explanation for the 'gog of magag'. Also the feet of the image that was of part clay and stone or something like that, symbolized unrest by democratically ruled nations. Has there been 'new light' in the explanation of that too?...anyone?
The image in Daniels dream...what does it mean now?
by uuus2b1 15 Replies latest jw friends
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AK - Jeff
I don't know the 'new light' on this. This subject was always one of my favorite public talks. But, now I have been cast out into the 'darkness, where the weeping and gnashing' of my teeth is imminent I suppose.
I think that perhaps the feet of clay represent cultic organizations that have a 'iron' look to them, but are tremendously unstable when faced with the reality of their prophetic failures. But then again, I got out of the prophetic explantion business some time back.
BTW - welcome to the forum.
Jeff
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Gill
Aren't we in the toes, or something equally bizarre, (as the storm clouds of Armageddon approach!!!)
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Clam
When I was a Dub the feet of iron and clay represented (in Watchtower land) the USA and the UK. Surely that's still a goer?
It's the kings of the north and the south that's a complete mess.
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Gill
Clam - NO! It's the toes I say, the Toes! Problem is the toenails keep growing, hence Armageddon has to be constantly postponed!
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Pahpa
The only interpretation that is valid is Daniel's. The identity of the head of gold is clear. It represented the King of Babylon. Thereafter, Daniel reveals that successive "kingdoms" would follow down to the feet and toes of the image which would exist when the kingdom of God would destroy all those kingdoms.
Many commentaries have noted the kingdoms that followed the Babylonian kingdom. (Medo-Persian, Greece, Rome) So, this interpretation is not an exclusive Watchtower teaching.
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Clam
Problem is the toenails keep growing, hence Armageddon has to be constantly postponed!
LOL Gill. A great observation. That could almost be a Watchtower excuse.
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diamondblue1974
Re: The image in Daniels dream...what does it mean now?
The same thing it meant ages ago, nothing at all! Daniel was probably off his face with some narcotic substance, the same with John in his revelation and all the others
Gary
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Terry
The "vision" part of Daniel was, in all likelihood, written after the fact and created to explain previousevents.
Incidentally:
Judaism does not consider Daniel to be a prophet. He is not once spoken of in the Old Testament as a prophet. In the Christian Old Testament (apparently following the Septuagint Greek translation [2]) Daniel appears in the "Prophets" section; but in the Jewish Tanach, he appears in "Writings." There are two reasons Jews do not consider Daniel to have been a prophet:
- Daniel never spoke directly to God. According to the Torah, prophets (navim) speak to God, not to intermediaries like angels. Daniel saw angels and never spoke to God. This is the primary reason Daniel is not considered a prophet.
- In Judaism a prophet (navi) speaks to his or her generation, not to future generations. The Prophets in the Jewish Tanach (e.g., Isaiah, Ezekiel) spoke primarily to their generation, but their message was also pertinent to the future. Daniel's visions were for the future, not for his generation. The Men of the Great Assembly (Sanhedrin) who codified the Jewish Bible (Tanach) argued about including Daniel in the Bible and placed him in Writings, not Prophets.
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Narkissos
Last reference I can find is in The Watchtower 1/15, 2000:
Fourth,
we are living in the period symbolized by the feet of Nebuchadnezzar’s dream image. The prophet Daniel interpreted this mysterious dream of an enormous image in human form. (Daniel 2:36-43) The four metallic parts of the image represent various world powers, beginning with the head (the Babylonian Empire) and extending down to the feet and toes (the governments that are ruling today). All the world powers represented in that image have made their appearance. We are living in the period symbolized by the feet of the image. No mention is made of other powers to come.Previously they explained "iron and clay" as "dictatorian vs. democratic" -- no particular reference to US/UK at the "toe" (or toenail) level.*
The only interpretation that is valid is Daniel's. The identity of the head of gold is clear. It represented the King of Babylon. Thereafter, Daniel reveals that successive "kingdoms" would follow down to the feet and toes of the image which would exist when the kingdom of God would destroy all those kingdoms.
Many commentaries have noted the kingdoms that followed the Babylonian kingdom. (Medo-Persian, Greece, Rome) So, this interpretation is not an exclusive Watchtower teaching.
If Daniel's interpretation is indeed the key, it's quite a stretch to read even Rome into the book. There is simply no room in the text to squeeze 100 or 2,170 + years of history between the clear references to Antiochus IV and the "kingdom of God". So either we admit it's a failed prophecy which means nothing "now"; or, if we insist that it must mean something "now" we may read about anything into it...