The Tower of Babel... What's up with that? (page 2)

Anti-Christ

Nimrod a man fiercely opposed to God and his worship and who was in fact aiming at enslaving mankind to his rule.

Yea god hates competition.

found-my-way

New International Version (NIV)
He was a mighty hunter before the LORD; that is why it is said, "Like Nimrod, a mighty hunter before the LORD."
Genesis 10:8-10 (in Context) Genesis 10 (Whole Chapter)
English Standard Version (ESV)
He was a mighty hunter before the LORD. Therefore it is said, "Like Nimrod a mighty hunter before the LORD."
Genesis 10:8-10 (in Context) Genesis 10 (Whole Chapter)
New American Standard Bible (NASB)
He was a mighty hunter before the LORD; therefore it is said, "Like Nimrod a mighty hunter before the LORD."
Genesis 10:8-10 (in Context) Genesis 10 (Whole Chapter)
New King James Version (NKJV)
He was a mighty hunter before the LORD; therefore it is said, “Like Nimrod the mighty hunter before the LORD.”
Genesis 10:8-10 (in Context) Genesis 10 (Whole Chapter)

Darby Translation (DARBY)
He was a mighty hunter before Jehovah; therefore it is said, As Nimrod, the mighty hunter before Jehovah!Genesis 10:8-10 (in Context) Genesis 10 (Whole Chapter)
Amplified Bible (AMP)
He was a mighty hunter before the Lord; therefore it is said, Like Nimrod, a mighty hunter before the Lord.
Genesis 10:8-10 (in Context) Genesis 10 (Whole Chapter)
English Standard Version (ESV)
He was a mighty hunter before the LORD. Therefore it is said, "Like Nimrod a mighty hunter before the LORD."
Genesis 10:8-10 (in Context) Genesis 10 (Whole Chapter)
New Living Translation (NLT)
Since he was the greatest hunter in the world, his name became proverbial. People would say, “This man is like Nimrod, the greatest hunter in the world.”
Genesis 10:8-10 (in Context) Genesis 10 (Whole Chapter)

The tower of Babel was a rebellion against God instigated by the king of that city who was the ambitious Nimrod a man fiercely opposed to God and his worship and who was in fact aiming at enslaving mankind to his rule. God never approved of humans removing him from their lives and totally ignoring him. That tower (zigurat) was to be the centre of a system of worship in opposition to that handed down by Noah and that's its real meaning. That's where mankind abandoned God and has been paying the price to this day. Very soon the world became full of conflict, war, poverty, slavery, tyrrany and all injustice. Babylon came to be known as the archetypal enemy of God and his worshippers as clearly seen in Revelation.

Can you show me where this is so in the Bible? As far as I know, the ONLY translation that says Nimrod was in oppostion to Jehovah, is the NWT. Why do all the other translations describe Nimrod as him a mighty hunter before God, and nothing is mentioned of his opposition to God? Just the fact that God saw that the sons of men were building this city, and if they finished it, nothing would be impossible for them....so He then confuses their languages. A friend of mine brought this to my attention, so I thought I'd mention it....if you can find another translation that says that Nimrod was in opposition to Jehovah or the Lord, let me know... humbly, ~found

under_believer

Wow, greendawn, that is a lot to infer from the scriptures at hand.

Mad

FoundMyWay wrote: "As far as I know, the ONLY translation that says Nimrod was in oppostion to Jehovah, is the NWT. Why do all the other translations describe Nimrod as him a mighty hunter before God, and nothing is mentioned of his opposition to God? Just the fact that God saw that the sons of men were building this city, and if they finished it, nothing would be impossible for them....so He then confuses their languages.A friend of mine brought this to my attention, so I thought I'd mention it....if you can find another translation that says that Nimrod was in opposition to Jehovah or the Lord, let me know...humbly, ~found"

Mad writes: You are CORRECT- the NWT is the only one I ever found that adds "In opposition to"! When I saw that (@1968) I thought I found a serious translation flaw to throw in their faces (I was studying with them at the time), then I pulled down one too many books, finding one on the Hebrew text in the OT. Looking it up, I was horrified to find that, yes, the Hebrew word "before" was used (" a mighty hunter BEFORE the Lord", KJV)...but that a marking providing sense stress/idiom conveyed "before- in a defiant sense"! Ruined my year- I never WANTED to be a JW- at first!

the Mad JW

Mad

I'm trying to find that info online- here's a little from the Ancient Hebrew Research Center - http://www.ancient-hebrew.org/emagazine/022.html

Nimrod?????

By:Jeff A. Benner

The name nimrod is not Hebrew but it is a Semitic name and is therefore closely related to Hebrew. The name comes from the Semitic root ??? (MRD) meaning "to rebel". In the Ancient Hebrew/Semitic cultures a persons name was closely related to their character and therefore Nimrod's name fits well with his personality. The name is formed by placing the letter ? (N) before the root. A common means of forming words and names out of a root in Hebrew is by placing the letter ? (M) before the root while other Semitic languages use the letter ? (N). Because of this we know that Nimrod is of a non-Hebrew Semitic origin.

The person Nimrod is only mentioned in Genesis 10:8,9 but these two passages speak volumes about the character of Nimrod. The standard translation for verse 9 is something like "He was a mighty hunter before the LORD; therefore it is said, "Like Nimrod a mighty hunter before the LORD". It would appear that there is nothing out of the ordinary about Nimrod. So, why is he so often seen as such an evil person?

Only two persons in the Bible are identified as "hunters", Nimrod and Esav, the twin brother of Ya'acov. From the story of Esav and Ya'acov we know that Esav was not the most respectful person. Not only did he despise his birthright but to spite his parents married foreign women. From this we can conclude that from an Hebraic perspective hunters are seen in a negative light. In verse 8 it states "he was the first on earth to be a mighty man". The Hebrew phrase may also be translated as "He made a profaning by being a mighty one in the land". To add to this verse 9 states that he was a "mighty hunter 'before' Yahweh". The word for "before" in Hebrew is "liph'ney" and literally means "to the face of" and in this case "to the face of Yahweh" and can mean that he was a mighty hunter in place of Yahweh implying that he, rather than Yahweh is the provider of the people.

One final clue into the character into the personality of Nimrod is how the Semitic root MRD has been used even into our own time. The Ancient Semitic root MRD (marad) is the origin of our words MaRauDer and MuRDer.

TopHat

WHAT! No come back to MADs post?

LtCmd.Lore

Who knows, maybe they would have polluted or destroyed the world sooner or invented nukes before Jesus came on the scene???

Acctually I had thought of that, but since this took place long before God ever made a covenent with Abraham or David there was no reason that he couldn't simply have Jesus apear and die at a different time...

Only two persons in the Bible are identified as "hunters", Nimrod and Esav, the twin brother of Ya'acov.

(plus a bunch of stuff about Nimrods name.)

Saying that E'sau was a bad guy, and he was a hunter, so therefore being a hunter must mean you are a bad guy, thus Nimrod was evil. That's kind of like saying that just because Hitler was evil and he was German, so therefore all Germans are evil. (Notice that god didn't do sqaut about Hitler.)

Plus, I don't like to judge people by there names... especialy people I can't meet. History is written by the winners, and that story was written by Moses right? So if Nimrod had a nasty name, you can blame Moses, not Nimrod.

The Bible doesn't say that God screwed things up because he was concerned for the humans. It says that he screwed things up because he knew that they would be able to accomplish anything by cooperating.

And if he WAS evil, and god was simply preventing a horrible society from forming, would that make it all okay? Here's what the Bible Teach book says about that: (Right after the student vs teacher illustration.)

***

bhchap.11p.112par.16WhyDoesGodAllowSuffering?***

Second, Jehovah has not helped Satan to rule this world. If God were to prevent horrible crimes, for instance, would he not, in effect, be supporting the case of the rebels? Would God not be making people think that perhaps humans can govern themselves without disastrous results? If Jehovah were to act in that way, he would become party to a lie. However, "it is impossible for God to lie."

So if Nimrod was an evil leader, then god should NOT have interfered. But if Nimrod was a good leader, then god should NOT have interfered.

LtCmd.Lore

TheListener

We discussed Nimrod in a thread about 9 months ago. It's an interesting read. Well, it is to me anyway.

http://www.jehovahs-witness.com/10/114642/1.ashx

TheListener

I just re-read that entire thread and it was really good. I do highly recommend it.

Zico

Good thread Lore If the Watchtower God was really just, he would have waited for Adam and Eve to have children before he messed them up. Then the children would have had the chance to rule Jehovah with perfection. On Esau, I think he was a nice guy. Ok, he made a mistake, when he accepted soup in place of his birth right. Big deal! We all make mistakes, Jehovah made us imperfect! He worked hard everyday hunting for his family. He comes home from a hard day's work, which supports his whole family, including his brother, and Jacob has the audacity to demand something in return for soup, as if his brother getting him meat every day isn't good enough. As for him going against his parents, he owed them nothing. Rebecca played favourites, she helped Jacob deceive his father, and his father went along with it (as if Isaac wouldn't have known his own son!) all while Esau was out hunting to give his father one last meal. And what was that sin anyway? He married a foreigner, seems his parents were xenophobes. Can you imagine if white parents demanded their son marry a white girl, who's side would you be on if he then married a black girl? So, Jacob steals Esau's right. Esau gets a bit angry, leaves, and goes and marries a foreigner. But in the end, he comes back, and he forgives Jacob. What a guy. I would like to have been his friend. Watchtower is messed up.

The Tower of Babel... What's up with that?

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