Atheists For Jesus - Richard Dawkins

by mavie 13 Replies latest jw friends

  • Panda
    Panda
    Morals can exist independant of religion

    My point exactly, morals did (and do) exist w/o religion. If we are selfish for existence I think that we'll also be insatiable for knowledge of the planet (and universe) which supports life. Not in any metaphysical way, but through science.

    About the Jesus as nice guy theory. I don't think Dawkins actually condoned that idea. I mean while Jesus was certainly influenced by much older philosophies (ie., Buddhism- read the Sermon on the Mount). Maybe he was suggesting that humanitarianism sans mumbo jumbo is a worthy ideal?

  • Madame Quixote
    Madame Quixote

    Panda said:

    About the Jesus as nice guy theory. I don't think Dawkins actually condoned that idea. I mean while Jesus was certainly influenced by much older philosophies

    I am so buzzed that I thought at first you stated:

    About the Jesus as nice guy theory. I don't think Dawkins actually condoned that idea. I mean while Jesus was certainly influenced by much older pedophiles

    which might also have been true and which might explain his drive toward extreme humanitatianism . . . perhaps? Oh lordy! I only have half a glass left!

  • Reefton Jack
    Reefton Jack

    At the risk of being accused of trying to "bump" this thread, I would go along with those that maintain that nobody would want to mistake religion for ethics:
    - The two things are quite different!.

    It is possible (quite possible, in fact) to be ethical, at the same time as being non-religious.

    The flip side of that is also true:
    - namely, all too often we see people who are super religious,but who are at the same time rather deficient in the ethics department
    (this happens both inside and outside the Borg).

    To know if something is right or wrong, you only have to imagine a world either without it
    - or where everyone practised it.

    Jack.

  • Narkissos
    Narkissos

    Even when religion claims to ground morality it affirms its transcendence over morality, hence its essential difference and autonomy from the rule of morality.

    In monotheism in particular, there is a "good" and a "bad" because God decides so, not the other way around. This places God above any moral code by definition.

    Believers unwittingly reverse the religious order when they affirm that their God is right, or good, unless they mean it in a purely tautological way (which is rarely the case). This is actually a denial of transcendence, as if God could be measured by a superior moral principle.

    But the very fact that this happens (all the time) reveals the constant tendency of morality to become absolute. Even God cannot escape to be judged by his ownrules in the long run, although he was meant to be above them in principle.

    A godless world is definitely a more moral one (regardless of the actual contents of morality), in a both positive and scary sort of way. It means that there is no commonly acknowledged exception to morality, and that we have nobody but ourselves to appeal to against the essential totalitarianism of morality.

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