NEED HELP: What's wrong with CURRENT Borg policy on molestation?

by Open mind 42 Replies latest watchtower child-abuse

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  Open mind

  OK, first off, please don't shoot the messenger here.

  The Dateline show on JWs hiding pedophiles was one of several "defining moments" in my process of questioning "the truth". It disgusted me.

  Now, thanks in great part to this site and others, I'm mentally free but still an active dub, fighting from the inside, trying to slowly, painfully, carefully get my family (spouse & kids) to see the light as well.

  Question: How can I use the dubs CURRENT POLICY on child molestation against them? I've been to silentlambs, freeminds, and others. Plenty of horror stories.

  But here's the rose-colored glasses justifications that I hear R&F dubs tossing around now and I know my wife would too if I confronted her with it.

  In a nutshell: It's all good now. Yes, you'll find individual cases of incompetence, coverups, etc, but the Society's POLICY is fine now. Here the specifics as I see them.

  1. Even if there used to be a policy of covering it up, that's all history now. Now the policy is to report it to the authorities where that's the law and to make sure the parents know that there will be NO REPERCUSSIONS towards them for going to the police. Also, I've heard individual elders from states that don't have mandatory reporting requirements say they would "drop a dime in a heartbeat" on a child molestor even though the law and the Borg don't require it in those states. See the F&D slave is humble and responsive to criticisms. Yes we've had bad apples and bad local BOEs, but that's what you get with a human organization. Everything's fine. Go back to sleep.

  2. I asked an elder about the: Can a known molestor become an elder after 20 yrs if he's "lived it down"? He told me that would only happen in a rare situation like this: An 18 yr/old male has consensual sex with a 15 yr/old female. He gets prosecuted for statutory rape at the insistence of her parents. Three years later (the girl's 18 now) they get married and start raising a family. 20 yrs go by and he gets appointed an elder. I personally know of a situation like this. The only difference locally was the guy was never prosecuted, but the circumstances were very well known in our area. So that's the answer to the "molestors can become elders" accusation. Any other horror stories of "my molestor is still a JW elder" will be met with: Prove it. It's not substantiated. He said, she said.

  3. The two-witness rule. Well, they've humbly responded on this one as well. (Hmmm, I'm sure the Dateline show and Silentlambs had nothing to do with it.) Since everybody knows most molestors will never have more than one witness at a time, now if a molestor is accused by two kids for two separate events, that passes the two-witness rule and he can be given a ride on the disfellowSHIP as well as turned in to the cops if that's required by law. It's an improvement, see. Yes, one more child was molested than needed to be (did I just write that?) but it's a tough situation when the elders are facing someone who's proclaiming their innocence.

  4. Going door-to-door. It's a scriptural requirement to preach and "known molestors" aren't allowed (officially) to go with kids or call on kids. And they have to be accompanied by an adult. ( And yes, I read all about "Brother" Verse's latest escapades going in service with a 14 yr old. )

  As I see it, they haven't gone far enough.

  1.They ought to forward ALL accusations of molestation on to the police whether required by law or not.

  2. The congregation should get some sort of notification.

  3. They should be limited (even more) in their ministry. Perhaps, letter writing or phone witnessing.

  But that's just my opinion. It seems like they've made enough concessions to keep most of the R&F complacent. Any recent anecdotal horror stories will just be written off to local Bozos not following official BORG POLICY.

  Am I missing anything here?

  What I've outlined above probably won't be enough to make any sort of dent in my wife's JW worldview. I really wish they hadn't made any concession on the two-witness rule. That might have been enough to get through to my wife.

  Open (to suggestions) Mind
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  Arthur

  Open mind:

  If your intention is to help your family "see the light" regarding the Watchtower Society; I'm afraid that the molestation issue is not such a strong angle to approach it from.

  The way I see it, there is a weakness in the method of trying to extricate people out of the organization based upon problems like this. The usual Watchtower line is "there were problems in the first century as well. These problems were eventually fixed, and people were corrected".

  I think in order to truly convince people of the WTS's true nature, you must help them to see where the organization and it's doctrinal structure is based upon false premises.

  You are correct when most Witnesses view this as just a "problem" in the organization that is an unfortunate consequence of Jehovah using imperfect people to lead the organization. The way I see it, the only people who have left the organization over the molestation issue are those who were personally affected (i.e. the victims themselves, their families, or elders who served on the committees).

  I have observed that most Witnesses have concluded that the molestation issue is blown out of proportion, and has been used as a club by "apostates" to beat the organization with. Some Witnesses actually believe that Bill Bowen made everything up, and that the Dateline expose was "apostate propaganda".

  Unfortunately, those who have tried to use the molestation issue as a lever to pry their loved ones out of the organization have been painted as someone who is willing to discard the "truth" for relatively minor issues. They have been painted as someone who is willing to "throw the baby out with the bath water".

  I would approach your situation from a different angle. I would try to help them see where the Watchtower Society has seriously strayed from Scripture (i.e. submission to an organization, legalism, false prophets, and Christ's headship). In short, I think that the best way is to help them see how the WTS's doctrinal structure is built upon a foundation of sand.
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  Arthur

  ONE MORE POINT:

  I think that the molestation issue (specifically the bad policies) could certainly be used when discussing the atmosphere of legalism in the organization. Here's how:

  The molestation issue is a good example of the negative effects that occure when a centralized body attempts to legislate all matters of congregational conduct, and attempt to construct very complex Talmud-like organizational policies through organizational legal channels.

  I'm sure that there have been congregation elders who have felt that a pedophile should have been disfellowshipped in order to protect children. In certain cases, their hands were tied by organizational policy.

  In a legalistic system like the WTS, you have many contradictory elements going on. You have people being disfellowshipped for not accepting the 1914 doctrine or the 144,000 doctrine, yet there are pedophiles who have been allowed to remain serving in good standing. How can this be justified?

  This is just one example of the horrible effects that occure from a legalistic religious atmosphere that is similar to the first century Jewish system. Whenever a centralized body attempts to dominate people's worship through a Talmud-like policy structure, they betray the very Christian principles of which they claim to represent.
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  Frannie Banannie

  Any other horror stories of "my molestor is still a JW elder" will be met with: Prove it. It's not substantiated. He said, she said.

  This is totally WRONG! While those cases may be in the past, most places don't have a Statute of Limitations anymore and the victims need to be reinterviewed and these, TOO, should be turned over to the police. They need to scour their files and do some cleanup work on this particular point.

  Two witness rule, be damned! The two-witness rule in cases of alleged rape and sexual assault against a child should be honored. They're such mental pygmies.

  Frannie
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  Open mind

  Thanks Arthur for the quick reply.

  I think you're probably right about mainly just those personally affected leaving over the molestation issue.

  I'm trying to implement what you said here:

  I would try to help them see where the Watchtower Society has seriously strayed from Scripture (i.e. submission to an organization, legalism, false prophets, and Christ's headship). In short, I think that the best way is to help them see how the WTS's doctrinal structure is built upon a foundation of sand.

  I'm chipping away here and there.

  I really wish they had kept the two-witness rule totally in place. It would have been a great emotional sledge hammer. But, I think even the Borg knew that & back-pedaled just enough to keep most dubs asleep.

  Any other thoughts out there?

  Open Mind
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  Open mind

  Oops, sorry Frannie.

  I was prepping my reply to Arthur and didn't see your comments.

  Thank you. That's a good point and is the sort of thing I was looking for.

  Any ideas on a particularly good way to present that to my wife?

  Open Mind
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  Mystla

  I don't understand what "change" has occured in the "two witness" rule? There still has to be either two victims or a secondary witness for a single victim.. right? So it's ok if a pervert only molests one child and no one sees?? (I know you don't agree with that, I'm just sayin..)

  If one child is molested.. that's one too many.. and no 6 y/o should have to "prove" their case before an elder body.. that's just demented. Have your wife put herself in that childs shoes while the elders ask where he or she was touched and how many times and did they "enjoy" it. This is what the police are for, they are trained to handle this, they have professionals who know how to help an abuse victim tell their side without further traumatising the kid. The elders should have no part in any of it once there has been an accusation. If they want to deal with the accused when the law is done with them... fine, but they should never question a child, they aren't qualified!

  Ok, that rant is out of the way. Any questions?

  Misty

  Edited to add: I just want to make sure you know I'm not aiming at the "messenger"
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  happy man

  Someone here see the movie Insider, about the man as was a wistelblower to the tobacco industri , there you have how they work, perhaps you think this is ferrytales, but it is not, we as have going through this know , we have experience the same as the man in the film, threats,if you tell someone this we must form a kommite against you and so on, at least much of it,is the same strategy, but isnt this a commen way in US to handle peopel as in some way are dangerus fore you, (one sentens i the movie they say but he say the truth, thats the problem if what he say is the truth it is much worse and the demage can be terribel thats why we must silent him), find so much dirt you cane about them, so nowan will belive them, in that way JW have been more sucsesfull than the tobacco company as have to pay sereral billions of dollars to peopel as was hurt by ther produkt, Jw have the most effecktiv system to silence dangerus peopel, dfd them and nowan will never listen to them.

  The Circutoveerser have a talk in the congs few month ago, about the terribel lies in TvVabout us, he talk over 30 minutes about this, widhout to say what the lying was about, I was chocked that they now try to take this thing upp again, why dont hide it,beacuse they know the position is weak.

  CO say "Will this terribel propagande against us stopp us to preach, no,never, when the next program come upp ,who are widh me to go out on the streets talking about the good news abuot the kingdom,"

  when I heard this I understand that this must have hurt them terribel beaucuse they still give so much atention to it.
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  yesidid

  1. Even if there used to be a policy of covering it up, that's all history now.

  So there is an admission that they used to cover up child abuse.

  Well: Where is the written apology??????????

  Child abuse is such a dreadful thing with many far reaching consequences

  that the very, very least they should do is humbly, and in writing, apologise

  to the damaged victims of their wicked policy.

  Until they can show the apology in writing, what evidence is there that they are sorry?

  And if they are not sorry for that, how can they claim to be speaking for God?

  y
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  blondie

  I haven't read all of this but rest assured that they have merely "adjusted" the policy to fit the laws of the area.

  For example, elders are directed to call Legal, call Legal, call Legal at the WTS. They are not to proceed until they do. Of course, we know some elders and BOEs disregard even the WTS if they think they can get away with it.

  Legal then determines where these elders live and if the laws in their state or area require them to report. If the secular laws don't require it, the elders don't report it to the secular authorities.

  Also, the elders are not to tell the family that they could/should report it. The rank and file have been trained to go to the elders and dump the responsibility onto them. Or the elders will tell them that religious sanctions will be brought against them if the family goes to the secular authorities.

  I don't know if she can give details, but she could give an overview of how things are currently from the legal aspect. Kimberlee Norris, who is not a JW and never was, represents many victims of JW sexual abuse.

  http://www.lovenorrisattorneys.com/kim_profile.html

  Finally, ask yourself, why are elders involving themselves in a felony criminal case? If you saw Brother Angry kill his wife or were fairly sure he had buried her in the backyard, should you tell the elders or the police? Some rank and file would say "tell the elders."

  Blondie

  PS people think that the Catholic Church has caved in and apologized and paid out monies to their victims. Read this website of the people who started this battle and know it is far from over.

  http://www.snapnetwork.org/