by Open mind 42 Replies latest watchtower child-abuse
For example, elders are directed to call Legal, call Legal, call Legal at the WTS.
And when you call Legal ( I know from personal first-hand experience) their main concern is: Is he/she interested in suing. Ah yes, so warm and compassionate! Makes me feel all warm and fuzzy just thinking about it.
Nvr
Blondie sums up the legalistic attitude pretty good. They don't even encourage the innocent
parent/guardian to go to the police, because it might look bad for "Jehovah." The adjusted
policy says not to discourage it. But in all cases, tell them there are better people more
qualified than the elders who should "interview" a little boy or girl. That means that the BOE
should suggest the police, IMO.
WTS is first concerned about the lawsuit. Then they are worried about the scandal. Somewhere
after that, they worry about the victim, but not enough to embarass a little child with a barrage of
questions. And imagine the questions they would ask a 16 year old girl, who knows what happened
to her.
A couple more things:
Congregation meetings and conventions. I was once informed that there are over 400 known JW child molesters in Canada. The information came from a former Bethel insider. We had it figured out that for large conventions, it would be entirely possible for there to be a dozen child predators roaming freely and mingling freely with families at each convention, with the parents thinking that it is a safe environment to let their young children meet new friends and basically give them a green light to "talk to strangers". It is basically a requirement for ALL JWs to attend these functions, including people who are known by Elders™ to be child molestors. They even provide a lapel card for child molesters to allow them to appear acceptable to the crowd, and instill a false sense of security in other attendees about the child molester's character. This is unacceptable.
The use of the words Brother™ and Sister™ applied to known JW child molesters in the Congregation™. The inclusionary terms Brother™ and Sister™ when referring to fellow JWs allows the JW child molestor to more easily gain the trust of other JWs. Someone who has been DFd for having committed the crime of child molestation, even if they never again have Privileges™ in the Congregation™ following Reinstatement™, is referred to as Brother™ or Sister™ so-and-so. This again creates a false sense of safety/security in the Congregation™ where the JW child molester is a member. He or she can mingle freely at Meetings™, conventions, in Field Service™, and all other required activities for JWs, just like the children who are the JW child molesters' targets. The Elders™ assign them to attend Book Study Groups™, often with the JW homeowners being unaware of the person's tendencies (I know this because that is what happened in my case). The person is deemed acceptable and worthy of other JWs' trust very simply by the artificial label Brother™ or Sister™. That is one Privilege™ that I feel should be permanently revoked in the case of known JW child molesters.
To answer this one would need to look at every case that has happened and I think the full picture would appear shockingly. I think that most cases of molestation don't get to the surface ,hidden under the effects of the influence of the governing bodies methods of running the worlwide organisation.
People are afraid to come forward in the "world" ,let alone in a religious environment like that of JW's where shame is silently encouraged and the heavy emphasis on Jehovahs name being effected by reports of molestation .Silence on these matters is encouraged indirectly from the GB thru layers of different people to the effect that victims are taught that waiting on Jehovah is a good principle that victims need to develop to be good christians despite what they've been thru.
This problem with molestation is common to all churches and they have responded the way they have wherever they are in a good or bad way ,but the governing body in it's usual attempts not to be seen as doing things the same way as "Christendom" have put in place a seemingly silent policy hidden thru the layers of authority to the point that people from within the rank and file don't even see that they've got an issue in this area. They can't grasp that Jehovah would actually allow molestation to happen in the perfect JW organisation ,so they are in denial.
You know my wife cried out to Jehovah time and again when she was little as her Elder father molested her for years, even once finishing a talk ,leaving the platform and leaving halfway to take my wife home when she was little and forcing sex on her when they got home ,leaving the rest of the family at the meeting to get home in one of their other cars. Do you think an active witness can accept that Jehovah would actually let this happen? Most can't and don't want to hear about it for fear of challenging their faith ,and in like manner this is how Jehovahs Witness policy on molestation has developed - Jehovah would not let this happen , it is too shocking!
That's why we have been confronted by idiot elders etc reasoning that they can't accept the testimony of a victim because if they did some poor innocent person might get DF'd for molestation when they did'nt do it.! How's that for Borg policy ,for the sake of extremely rare cases of a so called victim lying that someone molested them all the genuine victims must suffer ! What a lame cop-out. In these instances I have confronted them with the reasoning that if this is really Jehovahs people and his spirit is with the Elders handling cases of reported molestation ,then would'nt you know a victim well enough in most cases ,and known them for a time , to make a decision on whether the victim is a liar.And consider that the pain of bringing this forward is extremely difficult and that there is stuff all to gain in lying about such a thing.
When and if my wifes father is put in jail there is no reward for the years of distress ,it can't be taken away, only her childhood is and the fact that she never had a proper loving mother and father. Her bros and sisters have turned against her and most of the family are JW's in good standing when at least two others of the girls have been molested but refuse to come forward and hatefully reject my wife . Why would anyone lie about this sort of thing?
So what's wrong with Borg policy - well if you stop looking at the legalistic black and white on paper view of it's policies and just look at the destruction it does to peoples lives who can no longer sit in the same halls as their perpetrators and their families knowing they all appear to be good people and the other congo members think the sun shines out of them ,yet they are what they are ,lying molestors that are kept in the congos hidden amongst the innocent by Watchtower policy.
My wife and I have spent years fighting to bring her hypocritical molestor to some form of justice within the Borg ,in the beginning hoping to help him confess so he would be saved , but now we have to go to the legal system because he commited crime after crime and we want the rest of her family to be put on notice that their children need protecting from him . But sadly I think that some have already been got at.
We only wish we had not just put our trust in this terrible org and taken all these years till we went to the police ,we're pretty sure at least one of my wifes nieces was done and the girls father sought advice on a help line which was recorded (we found this out by an unconventional method).Needless to say the family got to him and hushed him up. And this is just one case - multiply this by whatever over the last 130years - how long does it take to get it right ,how can victims be expected to have fellow worship with their perpetrators, yes we left.
I just got a chance to read all your replies and wanted to say a quick, sincere, THANK YOU for taking the time.
I don't have time this morning, (gotta go to the mtng for FS doncha know)but I'll digest what you've said and post a thoughtful (hopefully) reply as soon as I can.
For those who have revealed the pain you've gone through as victims, I thank you for doing that and my heart truly goes out to you. If I could somehow give a little bit of a "pain transfusion" from you to my wife, I think that would be helpful. I'm just trying to figure out the best way to do it and you've given me some good things to ponder.
Gotta go see how many people I can avoid infecting with the JW virus this morning. Bleccchh.
Trying to dig my family out of this sand hole called "the truth".
Open Mind
Any ideas on a particularly good way to present that to my wife?
Open Mind, in regard for jdubya teachings, true repentance should include making up for the errors that comprised the sin against those who were victimized. You might ask your wife if their righting of past wrongs shouldn't include also going through their files and doing a cleanup work on past cases, ie: accusations against those still held in good standing, though having been accused in the past. Personally, I think that this should be done. Not to do it is just wrong. It makes their efforts to CYA appear to be just that and only for the legal aspects of the dilemma where the WTS legal liability is concerned.
Frannie (of the "gettin' off my soapbox now" class)
Sneaking a few minutes B4 dub relatives show up. So I'll address posts in the order received.
Frannie: Thoughts on the "two-witness" rule. I think the best way to broach this to my wife would be the: "What if it was XXXXXX (our child)?" approach. See what you think of this possible dialogue:
Me: Man, I can't imagine how difficult it would be to know that "Brother" Scum-of-the-earth who raped our child is still in good standing in the congregation. I don't see why the organization doesn't just come forward with whatever they have on the guy and volunteer it to the authorities. Instead, we're going to have to make our child go through a bunch of interrogations in order to "maybe" get the DA to try and subpoena congregation files. If the organization really cares about our child, why aren't they more proactive?
How's that sound Frannie?
Mystla: I think, though I could be mistaken, that the "two-witness" rule meant that as long as the molestor never had two witnesses for any one event, he was off the hook as long as he kept flatly denying the charges. He could keep on molesting to his sick hearts content for years. Then, it was changed to the current policy that as long as there were two victims accusing him of separate events that that would qualify as "two witnesses". Only problem with that is it requires two victims B4 anything is done instead of just one.
I really like this part of your post Mystla:
no 6 y/o should have to "prove" their case before an elder body.. that's just demented. Have your wife put herself in that childs shoes while the elders ask where he or she was touched and how many times and did they "enjoy" it. This is what the police are for, they are trained to handle this, they have professionals who know how to help an abuse victim tell their side without further traumatising the kid. The elders should have no part in any of it once there has been an accusation. If they want to deal with the accused when the law is done with them... fine, but they should never question a child, they aren't qualified!
My wife is fully aware of the very limited "qualifications" of plenty of bonehead elders around here.
Now, for a moment, let me put on my Borg Apologist hat. As for digging up old files, let the families and/or victims that want to, come forward and ask for them. Some victims may not want them dug up. I'm sure the Borg will cooperate with anyone who asks for it. (Yeah right)
Hopefully she won't bring up that line of reasoning since I don't have any info showing that the Borg won't cooperate with a subpeona. Any dirt on the Borg currently refusing to cooperate with the courts?
Yesidid said:
So there is an admission that they used to cover up child abuse.
Well: Where is the written apology??????????
Blondie:
Your point on BOEs should call legal first and if not required by law, keep quiet. Also, elders aren't to encourage families to go to authorities. Here's how I might approach this one.
Me to wife: "Since molestation is such a horrible thing why doesn't the org take the high road of automatically turning it all in? Instead, they wait until their arms are twisted by Caesar. Elders should take the initiative to make families well aware that they can go to police with no reprisals. "
Blondie said:
Or the elders will tell them that religious sanctions will be brought against them if the family goes to the secular authorities.
I don't think that's CURRENT POLICY. Local Bozo BOEs may do that, but I've been told that's NOT current policy.
Best quote I can use from Blondie:
Finally, ask yourself, why are elders involving themselves in a felony criminal case? If you saw Brother Angry kill his wife or were fairly sure he had buried her in the backyard, should you tell the elders or the police? Some rank and file would say "tell the elders.
I LOVE THAT!!! Thanks Blondie.
NVRGNBK said:
And when you call Legal ( I know from personal first-hand experience) their main concern is: Is he/she interested in suing. Ah yes, so warm and compassionate! Makes me feel all warm and fuzzy just thinking about it.
Thanks NVR.
Me to wife: "An elder who called legal once told me.......... (rephrase what NVR said)
Scully:
RE: Pedophiles wandering at assemblies/conventions. It's troubling, for sure, and I think I'll bring that up just as a warning reminder (especially since we still have kids) and to add to the overall "yuck" factor of this blessed organization.
As for criticizing the policy, well, what are you suggesting? A scarlet "M" for molestors to wear at conventions? I'd like that, but my wife would say that would be too much of a "bad witness" for new ones to see. And we know how important it is for them to get on the road to "life". Same logic would apply to not calling them a "brother or sister". Wouldn't want to stumble new ones.
As for the congregation being kept in the dark, I like that one.
Me to wife: "How would you like to have a book study at our house and not be told that a child molestor is here. It sure would be nice if there was a policy that protected the friends better."
I hesitate to even type a word. Thank you for being willing to answer. I wouldn't wish what you and your wife have been through on anyone. And yet, sadly, it would almost take that to reach some dubs perhaps even including my wife. That's what I was talking about in an earlier reply about wishing I could give her a little "pain transfusion". If my wife could feel even a portion of what you've been through it would probably help. I'll try in some way to convey it. Just not sure how. Thanks again for sharing that with me.
And thanks again to all who have responded.
Please don't take any rebuttals on my part the wrong way. I'm just trying to make sure I've got my ducks in a row. As you know, if there's even a tiny thing wrong with my "facts" a desperate dub will be all over that and ignoring the rest.
Open Mind
Thoughts on the "two-witness" rule. I think the best way to broach this to my wife would be the: "What if it was XXXXXX (our child)?" approach. See what you think of this possible dialogue:
Me: Man, I can't imagine how difficult it would be to know that "Brother" Scum-of-the-earth who raped our child is still in good standing in the congregation. I don't see why the organization doesn't just come forward with whatever they have on the guy and volunteer it to the authorities. Instead, we're going to have to make our child go through a bunch of interrogations in order to "maybe" get the DA to try and subpoena congregation files. If the organization really cares about our child, why aren't they more proactive?
How's that sound Frannie?
Excellent idea, Open Mind. There's nothing better to get the point across than to put their feet in the shoes of the victims or portraying someone near and dear as a potential victim.
I see there's a lot of other great ideas here, too. Bravo, one and all!!!
Frannie
Finally, ask yourself, why are elders involving themselves in a felony criminal case?
This cannot be overstated!
I am not a JW, but a Catholic. The reason I have become interested (okay obsessed) with the JWs is because my ex-husband, the father of my children has become a JW and is actively trying to enlist my children. (Yes, I've talked with plenty of lawyers and there is absolutely nothing I can do to keep my children from having to edure the meetings, lectures, bible studies, etc... freedom of religion!)
In the Catholic Church all adults that have contact with children must attend a "Keeping Children Safe" seminar. Is there any such type of program for JW elders? Also, there must two or more adults with children at all times. I know that the JWs don't have classes specifically for children, so all of this may not apply.
It is easy to claim that the JWs have seen the errors of their ways and have made corrections, but I would want to know why it ever happened to begin with. If the JWs are the only Christians and are the only ones assured eternal life (well maybe that's a stretch - Paridise earth I should say) then how could there be egregious sinners in their midst. I thought that the JWs purged their congregations of fornicators, liars, etc. How were these people missed? If it is God's organization then how could these people be members? God surely knew these people were molesters. So if God knew, wouldn't His organization know?
This probably didn't help, but maybe my prayers will.
