Memorial 2007

by Ténébreux 23 Replies latest watchtower beliefs

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  Ténébreux

  Well I just got back from the memorial, after being dragged along somewhat reluctantly. During the talk, one statement in particular caught my attention which I hadn't heard previously. The speaker was explaining why probably no-one there should be partaking of the matzo and wine, because on the night of the Passover Jesus began selecting his 144000 heavenly co-rulers starting with the 11 apostles who were present - and that from then on, most of Jesus' other followers just observed and did NOT partake, recognizing that they were of the earthly class.

  Unfortunately he forgot to cite the scripture for that one. Can anyone show me where the Bible talks about the other followers of Jesus observing without partaking and recognizing themselves to be of another class? As we all know, they don't just make up this stuff, so it must be there.
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  blondie

  Are you saying that most of the early Christians in the first century hoped to live forever on earth?
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  Zico

  Not only is it not in the bible, it's not even in WT doctrine. The WT teaches that there were no earthly class members until Rutherford revealed who the Great Crowd were in 1935. Every true Christian between 33 CE and 1935 was an anointed member, so there were no observers. Elders often make mistakes.
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  drew sagan

  Are you saying that most of the early Christians in the first century hoped to live forever on earth?

  That would sure be one heck of a streach, huh? My guess is that this was just a pretty ignorant Elder.
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  jeanV

  I should get the outline later this week. I'll let you know if there is anything of that sort in it.
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  Pahpa

  "Is not the cup of thanksgiving for which we give thanks a participation in the blood of Christ? And is not the bread that we break a participation in the body of Christ? Because there is one loaf, we, WHO ARE MANY, are one body, for WE ALL PARTAKE of the one loaf." 1 Co. 10:15-17

  It is obvious from Paul's consel at 1 Co. 11:17-34 that the entire congregation was involved in the memorial of Christ's last supper and that most were partakers. His warning is against those "unworthy" ones that might partake were those who were "weak and sick" perhaps not discerning the significance of the event but treating it as another meal.

  The idea that Christians are divided into two classes, one partakers of the emblems and the other observers, is strictly a Rutherfordian idea. It has no scriptural basis whatsoever.
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  robhic

  His warning is against those "unworthy" ones that might partake ...

  I don't know if this has been mentioned before, but this line (above) reminded me.

  I was raised catholic. Catholics can receive their "communion" as much as once a day and can do this every, single day. Communion is the 'communion wafer,' an unleavened, flat disc of bread about 1 inch in diameter or the size of an American 25 cent coin.

  You take it on your tongue or in recent years they allow you to take it in your hand and place it on your own tongue instead of letting a priest do it. You can also get a little taste of wine, too, if you want. (Also a newer allowance.)

  BUT ... if you have sinned and not been forgiven by a priest through confession you are not supposed to receive communion. It's a sort of "honor system."

  If you take communion when you are in a state of sin (I always hated that term) you commit yet another, worse sin. Or at least it compounds the others.

  So that, too, may explain the "unworthy" ones noted.
• 

  AlphaOmega

  with the 11 apostles who were present

  I thought that the entire 12 were present...

  Luke 22:14-21 NWT

  [14]

  At length when the hour came, he reclined at the table, and the apostles with him.

  [15]

  And he said to them: "I have greatly desired to eat this passover with YOU before I suffer;

  [16]

  for I tell YOU, I will not eat it again until it becomes fulfilled in the kingdom of God."

  [17]

  And, accepting a cup, he gave thanks and said: "Take this and pass it from one to the other among yourselves;

  [18]

  for I tell YOU, From now on I will not drink again from the product of the vine until the kingdom of God arrives."

  [19]

  Also, he took a loaf, gave thanks, broke it, and gave it to them, saying: "This means my body which is to be given in YOUR behalf. Keep doing this in remembrance of me."

  [20]

  Also, the cup in the same way after they had the evening meal, he saying: "This cup means the new covenant by virtue of my blood, which is to be poured out in YOUR behalf.

  [21]

  "But, look! the hand of my betrayer is with me at the table

  But the outline definately says...

  PATTERN FOR "LORD'S EVENING MEAL" WAS SET BY JESUS

  (3 min.) The first

  Lord's Evening Meal was observed Nisan 14, 33 C.E.

  Jesus and his 11 faithful apostles were present on that occasion Jesus knew that he

  would soon give his life as a perfect sacrifice

  Does that simply mean the only 11 were faithful, or do JWs teach that only 11 were present at the Passover / Last Supper / Memorial ?
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  JH

  and that from then on, most of Jesus' other followers just observed and did NOT partake, recognizing that they were of the earthly class.

  I thought that the first 144,000 were anointed, thus had to partake.
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  Sasha

  Is the same discourse given at ALL the memorials??? Or does whoever Elder in charge write his own speech? Please post full outline, as this js the first year I'm not going, since 1967 having dropped out last year.