Inspired? Spirit Guided?

unique1

My fathers arguement is always that the FDS is not inspired so their humanity causes them to get things wrong. They are merely spirit directed. I realized a main flaw in this arguement last night. It just hit me for no reason. What is the difference between spirit guidance and inspired?

WT Quote
9
Since so much human effort was involved in Bible writing, does this mean that the Bible is God’s Word only in a limited way? Are only the divinely dictated sections God’s message? No, for all, not just some parts of the Bible, are inspired by God. This is so because Jehovah God, by means of his active force or spirit, guided the Bible writers. Acknowledging this, the psalmist David declared: "The spirit of Jehovah it was that spoke by me, and his word was upon my tongue."—2 Sam. 23:2

And what does the FDS say about itself?

WT Quote

11 The information provided by "the faithful and discreet slave" is designed to strengthen our faith and train our perceptive powers. (Hebrews 5:14) Such counsel may be general in nature so as to allow each one to make a personal application. From time to time, we also receive counsel that deals with specific aspects of our conduct. What attitude should we have if we are really listening to what the spirit says through the slave class? The apostle Paul answers: "Be obedient to those who are taking the lead among you and be submissive." (Hebrews 13:17) True, all involved in this process are imperfect men. Still, Jehovah takes delight in using his human servants, though imperfect, to guide us in this time of the end.

So, are there two spirits? One who inspires imperfect men like Moses and Soloman and Paul to write down things correctly? Plus one who inspires imperfect men in the FDS who write things incorrectly? No, they are the same spirit. If the FDS is incorrect they DO NOT have God's guidance.

Dads arguement would be that men of old were inspired not spirit directed and that explains why the bible writers were correct and the FDS has made mistakes. These passages, which are just a few of many, prove that WRONG!!! They both are "spirit directed" and claiming to be "inspired". Inspired means receiving messages from God. This would be the same if God spoke directly like in the burning bush or if he used his holy spirit. If it wasn't then God really didn't speak to Jeus when the dove landed on his head, because he used the Holy Spirit.

I never realized this basic flaw till now. It seems so simple. How could I have missed it?

carla

Are there any examples of uninspired prophets in the entire bible? My jw says that Moses and the others still made mistakes just like the fds and that's good enough for him. Then that begs the question, is the bible reliable then? If the writers are just like the fds, then surely there are mistakes and the bible is not reliable. If the fds is somehow 'spirit directed' there should be no mistakes as no prophets made 'mistakes' in prophecy, if one is a bible believer. Plus, with the Jan 1 issue they have the dead somehow communicating with the fds. How any jw can see this and NOT see it as spiritism is beyond me!

rassillon

u1, Yeah, this is a really irritating thing to try to discuss with witnesses, they will insist that there is a difference but can't explain it. I have asked what the difference is and they say that the bible writers were given the info directly, but today they are just guided by the spirit but men can make mistakes. I return then with... "How do we know then what is from God and what is just fanciful imaginative mistakes of men?" Yeah, that one they can't answer. They believe that God is directing them, so they MUST me right....it is the same reason a gambler will keep betting even though they are loosing. -r

jwfacts

I have a detailed article on this at http://www.jwfacts.com/index_files/holyspirit.htm including some of the JW counter arguments.

You are right, to be directed by Holy Spirit by definition means to be inspired, so the Organization must therefore be infallible, which of course it is not.

The WTS always says, "but the apostles made mistakes". However the question is not whether the individuals make mistakes, but if the Organization does. My question always is "The Bible writers were directed by Holy Spirit, so how many mistakes are there in the Bible? None! Then why isn't Gods Organization able to produce equally accurate information today?"

unique1

"The Bible writers were directed by Holy Spirit, so how many mistakes are there in the Bible? None! Then why isn't Gods Organization able to produce equally accurate information today?"

EXACTLY!!!! I know even if I sent this to my dad with all the reasoning, he would still come back with his usual when he can't answer something: "Well, they have to be the right religion because they are the only ones preaching the good news." To which I reply, NO THEY AREN'T and the arguement begins again. They are just to stubborn to admit they have been proved wrong!!

Cold Creek Swimmer

I have had this discussion countless times. If this is God's perfect organization on earth, then why do the policies change? "It is run by imperfect men." No. Either it is god's perfect organization, directed by God, or it is not. You can't say that God has directed and inspired the writings of the Watchtower, and then say that the light is getting brighter when things change. If this were actually true, then that would mean that God was wrong. If what was taught 100 years ago was "Truth", then all today are apostate. Every time "new light" comes out, that means God made another mistake. There is no other way to look at it. By the WTS's own claims to be "God's spirit directed organization on earth", they prove that God's direction is often wrong.

How can all of these people accept the idea that God could ever be wrong? The excuse that the Org is run by imperfect men does not work. You can't claim to be inspired and then change your mind by blaming it on imperfection. The odd thing is that in 2000 years or so, the bible has not changed. In 130 years, 90% of what Russell taught is no longer around. In fact, you would be DF'd for teaching most of what Russell held to be true-and he is the founder on which this religion was built. How important is God to these people? Obviously he is just an afterthought that get's in the way of "present truth". Does anyone else remember the song that says to "keep in step with present truth"? The"Truth", apparently, is a moving target. "Don't let the bible get in the way. We're the voice of God. Just ask us, we'll tell you."

CCS

Pahpa

Unique1

JWs always come back with the argumentation that they are the only ones doing the "preaching of the good news" today. What they don't realize is that the "good news" of the 1st century centered on Christ, his death and resurrection. Today, JWs' message is about the Watchtower's interpretation that the Kingdom was established invisibly in the heavens in 1914 and that we're living in the "time of the end" since that date. However, if the Watchtower is wrong, they have been preaching a false message. Therefore, Jehovah's Witnesses would be in the category of "false teachers" and "false prophets" that Christ and the apostles warned would come after them.

Jehovah's Witnesses may try to "split hairs" to get out of the responsibility of a teacher or prophet. But the fact remains that anyone in those roles is accountable because they effect the lives of others. In the case of the Watchtower, it is even a heavier responsibility because it has shifted the focus from Christ to itself.

compound complex

Greetings Unique1,

The following statement - in line with Pahpa's comments - was made by Fred Franz during a dining room discussion at Bethel on November 17, 1979. [cited by Ray Franz in his book, IN SEARCH OF CHRISTIAN FREEDOM, pages 32 and 33]:

"The sole purpose of our existence as a Society is to announce
the Kingdom established in 1914 and to sound the warning of the
fall of Babylon the Great [in 1918]. We have a SPECIAL message
to deliver." [emphasis: R.F.]

Jesus Christ received authority - power - after his resurrection in the first century. Was there anything left to give him in the twentieth century [1914 and 1918] ? NO!
He is in no way connected to the "sole purpose" of the WTB&TS.

Compound-Complex

rescuer

I came across a very precise answer to this but cant find the link is it ok to just type it up.I took a printout of it

AuldSoul

Sure, rescuer. It is fine for you to simply type it up.

I would encourage you to consider the definitions for "inspired", "guided", and "directed" prior to responding, however. Keep in mind that, as a prerequisite of JW baptism, candidates are required to acknowledge that Jehovah's Witnesses comprise God's "spirit-directed" organization.

Respectfully,
AuldSoul

Inspired? Spirit Guided?

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