JW's to those who died in 'Jonestown'

by KW13 13 Replies latest jw friends

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  KW13

  It frightens me to think there is even the slightest link. I have doubts the society would do such a huge thing as passing the poisoned fruit juice but in many other ways they have followers ready to kill themselves for the 'cause'.

  No Blood etc

  Then you get the explempary dubs who were killed by nazi's for their faith. How often is this stressed? My mum told me she'd die for her faith and she'd allow me to die and wouldn't sign the piece of paper (aaaaaages ago this was, last year). I said would God Justify YOU allowing someone else to die for YOUR faith? Isn't that a tad selfish really...

  "Well i'd have you in the paradise" - Got mad then "Would you even expect me to talk to you after that?"

  Your thoughts?
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  Check_Your_Premises

  Actually, as a Christian I have thought of that very dynamic.

  Christ said that he who denies me, so will I deny to my Father.

  On the other hand, what if they day comes for me, where Christians are being fed to the lions. What if someone told me, "Deny Christ or we will rape, torture, and kill your children while you watch".

  Do I refuse in order to guarantee my place with the Lord?

  And if so, how does this reconcile with the command to "do unto others". I am quite certain that were I the small child on the receiving end of such an offer, I would want the denial to be done unto me.

  Scylla or the Charybdis.

  Bad or worse.

  Such is the human condition.

  CYP
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  blondie

  How many really "live" for their faith? It is one thing to say you won't take a blood transfusion but when push comes to shove. I have seem that many JWs take transfusions if they can conceal it from the WTS authorities. How many are selling their homes and going to where the need is great or regular pioneering or even working unassigned territory? How many seem zealous to get appointed or get some plum assignment on the convention?

  The WTS has to do some weeding out to get down to the "truly faithful" and obedient. I know too many JWs that skirt around the requirements to be the kind to "drink the koolaid." Remember that the people in Jonestown were isolated from their family, from civilization, and had no access to a way to leave. Many were forced to drink or were shot. Now if the WTS has everyone move to some compound in the US or elsewhere.........

  Blondie
• 

  skeptic1914

  Some interesting views were exchanged in this thread:

  http://www.jehovahs-witness.com/12/131106/1.ashx

  Skeptic1914
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  Tyrone van leyen

  I think if I were in a situation that called for me to deny God to save children, I would do it. I think God is a big boy who can take a bit of name calling for the sake of children. You can always repent and ask for forgiveness afterwards. I'm sure God understands what the word duress means especiallly since he was under the same circumstances with his son. Besides how could you get the preaching work done if people were getting killed like that? That would be most arrogant and self centered of God to expect such a sick offering of loyalty. All this of course if you beleive the scriptures. If God thinks killing children is ok to vindicate his name I don't want anything to with him anyways. His son supposedly was given as a sacrifice but the whole idea of redemption for people who had nothing at all to do with the original sin is prepostrous to begin with.
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  Mary

  KW13 said: It frightens me to think there is even the slightest link. I have doubts the society would do such a huge thing as passing the poisoned fruit juice but in many other ways they have followers ready to kill themselves for the 'cause'.

  I used to think that too Karl......but after I read in CoC of how they let the brothers and sisters in Malawi be raped, beaten and murdered due to a change in one person's vote in Bethel, nothing would surprise me when it comes to the Governing Body anymore. Plus, look how many have died over the years due to their ban on blood transfusions.

  So unfortunately, the WTS is not as different from Jonestown as what we might think.
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  Who are you?

  I view the WTS as wayyyyyyyyyy more blood guilty and have caused way more deaths than Jonestown. FedEx and USPS deliver packages at different times and in different trucks...but they are still both delivery services.

  Both Jonestown and the WTS are both cults that gave there faithful totally unscriptural advice that led to the deaths of their followers. Their delivery methods are different, but the end result for the unfortunate followers is the same.
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  KW13

  Good points mary. I do think some dubs would (Like my Mum for example) would rather me live than die for God but its the fact she said it. As you said blondie a lot are like that, in the situation things may be different but as Mary said history proves there are still a lot who would die.

  Remember the old awake that glorified dead children who went without life saving treatment? I have yet to hear any protest from any dub.

  skeptic1914 interesting thread mate
• 

  Quandry

  I know this topic has been discussed at great lengths but my family and I just saw the Jonestown documentary last night. It was so strange to think that people would let themselves be deceived to such and extent that they willingly drank kool-aid.

  But the thing is, the wierdness began slowly and imperceptibly. Everyone was drawn in because they wanted a sense of belonging and family and doing things for the good of the "brotherhood." At first, all was happiness because they were such a united family. As time went on, the control became tighter. Members were called upon to work without ceasing. The faithful would willingly give all their money to the "cause."

  As time went on, the control became tighter. Then of course, it became evident that discipline was necessary for the functioning of the whole as a unit. So it became necessary for members to lovingly turn in their mother, father, son,etc.... for the good of the group and to keep harmonious functioning. They even called the "sinner" down to the front and beat her/him in front of everyone, humiliating them so that they would return to correct thinking. Obedience without question was called for even if the member felt uneasy with some of the "rules."

  To leave this wonderful group was seen as disloyalty. This could not be tolerated. They were constantly fed "truths" from Jim Jones and kept so busy that they could have no time to think for themselves. They were to view outsiders as ones who wanted to persecute them and destroy their way of life. The "news" they received came from Jones. His was the voice of authority. The only one who could dispence truth.

  When the congressman came to their camp and stated that he could see they were a happy group, the applause was thunderous. Most of those people had no doubts. When a man gave a note to someone with the congressman stating that he wanted to leave, a child who saw it began yelling, "He passed a note!"

  The ones who wanted to leave were in the very small minority. Most of the others viewed them with great contempt and scorn. A few realized that something horrible was going to happen, but felt that they had no place else to go. After all, their families were willing to drink the poison.

  It gave me such an eerie but familiar feeling. Didn't it you?
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  greendawn

  The WTS is trying to exploit a spiritual inclination of people to be achievers to face difficulties and try to come out triumphant with some kind of martyrdom but in their case it is pseudo-dilemmas because their rules that one has to follow to death are not genuine or Biblical. Above all it is all done for a false organisation even if the dilemmas were authentic.