Gun control logic

by Gregor 174 Replies latest social current

frozen one

weapons are BIG MONEY for the rich and powerful
Yes indeed. Big money in the firearms business. I get a kick reading posts from Europe and Britain regarding America's appalling attitude towards firearms. Yet they don't seem to protest the fact that many "American" guns are foreign in origin. Here's a short list:
Winchester and Browning - Belgium (firearms actually made in Japan where gun ownership is forbidden)
Glock - Swiss and German
Smith and Wesson - Britain
Beretta - Italy
I guess people in Europe and Britain, while looking down on firearms being in the hands of citizens, don't mind the profits made from the manufacture and sale of guns to us trigger happy Yanks.
Tarus is a popular brand in the States also. The company in Brazilian.
Little Drummer Boy

Hi Gill,
Please go back to page 2 of this thread and read my post before you post again on this thread. Please, if you will. Kindly. Thank you very much. Again, as I said in that post, I'm not debating the gun control issue, just clearing up a few misconceptions that Europeans are having. The things stated in my previous post are not opinions but just a few facts to help you understand. Please pay particular attention to point 1 of that post. Please read it. Thank you.
That being said....
If you do choose to continue on with the full-auto assault rifle non-sense angle as you have in your last couple of posts, I will however choose to dog you about it continually here. It is important that you understand what is really happening over here. It isn't what you are portraying.
Again, the points in my previous post are not my opinions and as I stated I am not, for the time being, entering into the debate on gun control. I am however setting a few things straight so that others can do so properly. I am also not trying to be argumentative.
Kindly,
LDB
pollyana

I'll be surprised if the Joe Hoover crowd doesn't work to use this incident to support the "beginning of the end" crap they spout. He didn't use full-automatic weapons. He could have done the same damage with several cheap 6 shot revolvers. If you believe in "natural rights" (pro-creation, speech, self-determination) which some do, then historically man has owned the right to arm himself since he first picked up a club. Why should owning a 2007 version of a club (semi-auto pistol) be denied to a person if they have a non-violent past? If you don't subscribe to natural rights in essence you're saying you're willing to let the government of the day decide for you what you are allowed to do or think. That hasn't worked very well in The USSR or China nor many South & Central American countries over the last century. As with everything else, be careful what you wish for as it may come true.
Brother Apostate

Gill,
Please get your facts straight:
And why does anyone need automatic weapons in a 'civilised' society?
A hand gun for protection is one thing, but automatics, machine guns etc.
An automatic weapon is a grade 'A' killing machine.
Automatic weapons are prohibited in the US
, for all practical purposes, with very, very strict penalties for illegal possesion- class A felony, go to jail for years, never allowed to possess a gun again. The manufacture of automatic weaponry for civilian ownership has been illegal since 1986. Exception- All automatic weaponry currently in circulation (pre-1986) are grandfathered, meaning these can be legally owned by civilians (collectors) only if state and local laws permit. Other requirements, such as an extensive background check and approval by local law must also be met. This is a non-issue. There has been only one case (a bank robbery about a decade ago) where automatic weapons were used, again these were illegally obtained and used by criminals. In Switzerland, automatic weapons may only be owned by collectors and may not be fired in fully automatic mode
Semi-automatic weapons are allowed in the US
, these allow one shot per trigger pull, with brief pauses per trigger pull. In Europe, many countries such as Germany, Austria, Switzerland, Finland, Sweden and Italy authorize the private ownership of semi-automatic weapons.
In the US, if you are caught in public, anywhere, with a semi-automatic weapon, or any other gun for that matter, and you have not gone through the process to obtain a permit to carry it to the shooting range, hunting, etc, you are guilty of a class A felony with a mandatory punishment of 5 years (in most states) in prison and you will never be legally allowed to purchase, possess, or carry weapons again in your life. That is a huge incentive to a law abiding US citizen to walk the straight and narrow, and obey the law, regarding gun ownership and gun carrying in public, whether concealed or not.
One of the main reasons (arguably the main reason) the Second Amendment (the Right to bear Arms) was put in place is to make sure that an armed citizenry is always at hand as the US population's last line of defense against tyranny by their own government, or outside threats. As such, it is as necessary today as it was when it was adpoted, for the US citizenry to have state of the art weapons should, God forbid, such events as this occur.
It's difficult to kill a room full of people with a knife.
Yes, and it's easier to, as a law abiding US citizen, shoot the knife wielder, than get all cut up in a struggle over the knife.
Force guns to be turned in, and the criminals will not hand them in.
Take their guns away, and the criminals will still get them on the black market.
Even if there were no such thing as guns, these henious criminal acts would be carried out with vehicles, bombs, poisons, bioagents, etc, etc, etc.
BA- American caveman
Warlock

One of the main reasons (arguably the main reason) the Second Amendment (the Right to bear Arms) was put in place is to make sure that an armed citizenry is always at hand as the US population's last line of defense against tyranny by their own government, or outside threats.
Thank you, BA, for getting to the main issue. Americans, not all, but many, do not trust their government.
Warlock
BrentR

It's healthy for citizens to not trust thier government. But it is very dangerous when a government does not trust it's own citizens. That is the difference between citizens and peasants or subjects.
To the first step in commiting genocide is to disarm the people, just look at history.
hillary_step

BA,
Semi-automatic weapons are allowed in the US , these allow one shot per trigger pull, with brief pauses per trigger pull. In Europe, many countries such as Germany, Austria, Switzerland, Finland, Sweden and Italy authorize the private ownership of semi-automatic weapons.
What seems to have been missed in this discussion is that a non US country allowing the purchase of firearms does not neccessarily reflect a comparison to the *right* to bear arms as it does under the US constitution. There are nuances that are being missed in these comparisons.
For example, while Italy allows the possession of arms by non military personnel, these people have to prove that they *need* the weapon before a licence can be issued. Switzerland, another example, allows the possession of semi-automatic weapons because of the fact that though its army is virtually non-existant, its population under their law can very quickly become its army, so these weapons are for such situations. In many villages in Switzerland look beneath the quaint exteriors of the chalets and you can often find heavy artillery, regularly maintained and ready for use and operated by the town ironmonger, or bank manager.
That having been said, these explosions of bullet-laden anger that occur regularly in the US do seem to be a cultural issue. No statistical evidence exists which indicates that more guns lead to more murder, but the root of the problem needs to be indentified and attended to. Joni Mitchell once described the US as a 'land of snap decisions and short attention spans', I think somewhere in that statement is the beginning of the answer.
HS
Brother Apostate

HS,
Yes, as it pertains to gun ownership, there are more hurdles to clear in some non- US countries, and differing reasons for permitting gun ownership.
That having been said, these explosions of bullet-laden anger that occur regularly in the US do seem to be a cultural issue.
Yes, indeed- it is a cultural issue. There is a class or of US residents (and residents of every country) that are criminal in their thoughts and actions. Understanding why that is the case, and what to do about it, is the subject of much debate. It's very difficult to generalize the reasons for criminal activity and behavior, they are many. Like all societies throughout history, it's something that will never be completely extinguished, only controlled.
No statistical evidence exists which indicates that more guns lead to more murder, but the root of the problem needs to be indentified and attended to.
Indeed. I have my opinions as to what the root(s) of the problem are, and they are many. One additional test prior to gun ownership should be to require mental health testing. However, that too, is potentially a slippery slope that would be somewhat difficult to pass into law.
Joni Mitchell once described the US as a 'land of snap decisions and short attention spans', I think somewhere in that statement is the beginning of the answer.
That is true for a portion of the populace, for sure. What that portion is is debatable.
Cheers,
BA
sammielee24

Those supporting guns here know they have a lot to fear in their country. In that case, stop invading other countries and get your government to sort out your own country first.
How about universal health and dentistry care?
Whatever it cost to go blow up Iraq could have easily covered the cost of that and US citizens might all feel a lot happier with themselves and a little more secure.
It would at least be a start to let all your people know, including the very poorest that they are all valued
Best solution yet. 250 million guns in circulation out of a population of 300 million? If every one of those who support the pro gun associations, which are some of the biggest in the country and a major reason why there is no registration etc; would back universal healthcare it would really show us something wouldn't it? That way I would feel secure in knowing that should that stray bullet in a shoot out slice through my arm, I'd at least be able to go to the hospital without fear of losing my house to get it taken care of. sammieswife.
OUTLAW

..Guns don`t kill people! ..Blind Penguins with guns,kill people!..LOL!!...OUTLAW

Gun control logic

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