You Believe in God? Who cares?

by proplog2 35 Replies latest jw friends

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  proplog2

  I think this is a good thread to post feelings about the various evolution/creation and atheism/theism disputes on this discussion board.

  I don't really care whether most people believe in God or not. All I care about is that science keeps doing its job. Most theists are going to contribute almost nothing to the next stage of scientific progress. They may become good at some technology but they will not participate in adding to the raw knowledge at the growing edge of scientific exploration. Theists are in a comfortable hole and it is best for those of us who know better to leave them there and even keep them in ignorance. People who like the theist hole apparently need that way of thinking to keep them out of trouble.

  Why worry about changing their minds? Is it really possible for someone to embark on a useful scientific career if they have believed in God most of their lives? The next stage of scientific progress is all about evolution, artificial intelligence, self-organizing systems, producing energy out of nothing, controlling the things that ordinary people think are the exclusive domain of God. That's why you don't want religion taught in school. You want young minds to be free to reach into the murky world where theists are afraid to go.
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  Terry

  It has been my experience that people tend to put on colored glasses (metaphorically) when they "see" the world.

  The color of the lens determines the color of what they see.

  For example, a JW sees a school shooting or 9-11 and sees "sign of the End".

  A politically indoctrinated person sees politics. A liberal sees liberal issues and a conservative....well--you get the idea.

  One of my hobbies, if you can call it that, is talking to people and asking subtle questions that help me identify what color glasses they are wearing.

  Interesting are people that switch lenses as we go from subject to subject.

  We filter everything.

  Take the newspaper, for example.

  BEFORE you read any story in a newspaper there has been a filter applied by the editorial committee. The editor decides what stories do NOT appear and which ones do. The editor decides how the story is presented and even focuses on word choices!

  Back to the JW's.......

  There are so many books, articles and programs a JW will edit OUT of his experience in order not to disturb the filter of colored lenses placed there by the Watchtower Society.

  I like to know:

  1.Does a person believe in God?

  2.How do they define this belief?

  3.Which God and why?

  4.What is the depth and breadth of their historical knowledge about scripture?

  5.What colors their political view vis a vis their belief in God?

  The more I know, the better I understand what I'm being told and what it "means" to the one speaking. I can, then, adjust my communication to include that world view. We can speak the same language as we discuss this and that.

  The first question a religious person wants to know is "What Religion" you are so that they can adjust the lens they are wearing in order to "SEE" you according to their ideology.

  I like to toy with that.

  The most important thing I want to know is:

  Who is intellectually honest?

  Does their belief find support in their facts and the way they live their life? Or, is there a dissonant friction between belief and reality which they force themselves to deal with by pretending it doesn't conflict?

  Interesting stuff~!
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  Nulite

  God will always be a Great Mystery. The scriptures tell us we will never figure him out. Our parents never tell us everything about themselves. Things do evolve somewhat. I think God put forth creation with the ability to evolve to some parameters.

  God made sexuality and chocolate so he cares. Plus he will probably will reverse time at somepoint in the future to get earth back on track---1000 year reign.

  Nulite
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  journey-on

  In other words, Terry, you like to put people in a box. (Just my observation...not meant to criticize your way of sizing people up.)
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  What-A-Coincidence

  If God exists...he needs to manifest himself ... how hard can that be ??? He is GOD ain't he???
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  Inquisitor

  In other words, Terry, you like to put people in a box. (Just my observation...not meant to criticize your way of sizing people up.)- journey on

  I think Terry meant that he lets people pick the box for themselves. INQ
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  TopHat

  I agree...Terry puts people in a box.
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  Open mind

  Garybuss, with his typical economy of words, inserted this quote into a similar discussion a few days ago:

  "It is especially important to keep a tactful tongue in our head when living in a divided household."
  The Watchtower April 1, 1955

  Proplog2: Excellent post. I agree, with one caveat. I don't think either "side" appreciates a "I have the truth and you're somehow mentally deficient" attitude. It's a fine line, which I've been guilty of crossing myself many times. On the one hand, being overly civil stifles healthy debate. On the other, flame-wars that cross the "Ad hominem" line end up obscurring the issues as well.

  Theists are in a comfortable hole and it is best for those of us who know better to leave them there and even keep them in ignorance.

  IMO, (and it's just MO),............... a little too condescending for the JWD "divided household" we live in. Please don't get me wrong. I loved your post and I share much of your worldview, including a lack of belief in God. I just think there are plenty of very intelligent theists on JWD and it serves no good purpose to alienate them. Hopefuly that wasn't your intent.

  Ok, getting down off my "Rodney King" soapbox now.

  Open Mind
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  TopHat

  That's why you don't want religion taught in school. You want young minds to be free to reach into the murky world where theists are afraid to go.

  IP: Tr3WL8aI56ooqRDE

  I disagree.....theists are not afraid to go anywhere....I don't see any theist keeping their children out of science class. Science is quite intersting...As GOD is THE greatest Scientist of ALL>
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  moshe

  Yes, I am wired to believe in God. If I am in a foxhole situation I will likely pray for God to save my butt. I am a Jew, but the category that fits me is: Humanist Jew. We don't pray for God to save the world, but we believe it will take the labor and imagination of good people to save this world for the next generation- our children. When we go to synagogue on Yom Kippur to fast and pray for attonement for next years sins, we do it as a group to help each other, to support each other and to make it through another year together. If God is listening, so much the better.