by OnTheWayOut 37 Replies latest watchtower beliefs
So when the bible talks of "rest" does it actually mean "death" to God?
Lazurus was dead...yet Jesus said he was "resting"....until he translated the two were the same to Him.......people considered them total opposites. And probably thought He was nuts and incorrect in saying Lazuraus was "resting"....yet how could anyone argure with the creator of us AND words?
Hey you are wrong in our eyes! yet right in yours. What gives>?
Yaddayadda - thanks for bringing everything into perspective. I agree with you 100%.
Unfortunately most of the answers you have been provided on this thread have come from persons who have renounced all faith in the bible as God's inspired word. You said that you did not want to discuss the reliability of the bible, but that is exactly what the thread immediately degenerated into. These posters have resorted to an argument that since the bible is a plagiarised mess then we cannot trust anything it says and everything in it is open to interpretation. So your question is redundant. You wont get very far by putting a lot of stock on the views of atheists and other persons on this forum who can only respond to questions on bible doctrine from the point of reference that that the bible is nothing more than a human work, an ensemble of fictitious writings.
Sorry you feel this has "degenerated" into something that you don't agree with. I no more WANT to be an atheist or agnostic, than someone who has to get root canal wants one. It's what I HAD to do, after considering the EVIDENCE that history provides neither supports the church's view on matters OR the bible itself. At least I'm intellectually honest enough to provide a point of view that sheds some light on THAT POSSIBILITY. It appears you are no different than the jw who must demonize someone by labeling them "apostate", (i.e. Atheists and other persons on this forum who can only respond to questions on bible doctrine from the point of reference that the bible is nothing more than a human work, an ensamble of fictitious writings"). Somehow our opinion just dosen't matter, according to you. Nowhere did OTWO suggest that this topic was only open to BELIEVERS, perhaps you didn't notice that.
Nowhere did I state, (as anyone else), that these things are open to interpretation. You missed the point entirely, attempting to defend your shaken belief system. The point I was making, is that the jws were making an honest attempt to fix things that the churches got wrong, (i.e. the Trinity, Hellfire, and the like). Scripture has indeed evolved to support such doctrine, even if only in a weak sense. MOST CHRISTIAINS belived these falsehoods by the second century, (which was the REAL century when anything we today regard as Christianity began). Much of, (what we today call), the bible was influenced by this thinking.
I really don't like to get into these type of atheist/agnostic vs. believer type of discussions. You forced this one out of me.
Jason
I believe that a relegion can have all the truth in the world but lacking love, it is worthless in God's eyes like the Pharisees were. They knew everything of the law of Moses but lacked the whole point behind it. Worthless. To me, it doesn't matter how closely the JW's follow the Bible because they miss the whole point behind it. Sounding pieces of brass and clashing symbols.
I was the poster who said that the Paradise Earth doctrine for all believers except the "anointed" that JW's assert as the "TRUTH" in their theology is not supported in scripture. Here is
what I mean: God, as recorded in Genesis, told Adam and Eve to be "fruitful and multiply and to have in subjection the creatures of land, sea, and air." That was it. That was the only
affirmative command placed on man and it was without promise or consequence.
The addition of a promise or a consequence is significant to me, for Jesus said to the Pharisees that they
invalidated God's word, namely "Honor your father and your mother, which is the first commandment WITH A PROMISE."
The other was about not eating of the tree of the knowledge of good and bad. Not an affirmative
command, but a PROHIBITION with a consequnce. No where in this account does God say that man would live forever on Earth.
Then you have Christ coming, Christ who reconciles all things to God, who is the fulfillment of the phrophets and of law and the "gaurantee" of God's PROMISES, and what he offers
is life in heaven, to dwell in the house of his father, the place to where he was going and where his disciples would follow. So if Christ came to restore all things, and the life he PROMISED
was in heaven, where does "living forever on a paradise Earth" fit in? Why not promise life on Earth? Why is it so difficult for those who believe in God and the Bible, who believe that the
plan of God was a "sacred secret", to also believe that in time God would have revealed His purpose for man one step at a time, gradually, as He has done thus far, except without sin in
the picture? Why not believe that God knew all these things were going to happen and allowed them to happen, without recriminating God?
I believe in God. I believe that the Bible has lots that is from God, but has lots that is not from God. "Test the inspired expression to see whether it originates with God." That is sage
advice from the Bible itself. And if the everlasting future of any believer in God depends on their discerning the "truth" about God, why would it be wrong to look at the Bible critically?
I think for any former Jehovah's Witness, credulity in the sayings of anyone has no place in their paradigm.
JW doctrine is full of lies, half truths, superstition. They are the blind leading the blind. I do not believe that any person who cannot bring himself to accept the Bible as the inerrant
Word of God has renounced either his faith or belief in God. I can understand why many would see it all as a fairy tale. Frankly, it is quite UNBELIEVABLE. However,
I have come to learn that just because something is unbelievable does not make it less true or real. Often, fantastic things are, in fact, true. Paradise Earth JW style is not
one of those things.
I am starting a new movement against religion.(what is the difference)
My movement believes that nobody but God really has a clue....and He is not sharing yet.....everyone is following around and worshipping a bunch of people who are guessing and presenting their guesses as facts or truth.
If there was really a prophet in our world today.....the ones who are enjoying success and power from their guesses..would have killed or silenced them as they always have done.
When a real prophet or God Himself decides to reveal the facts....they will not be able to be disputed..and the guessers will lose everything extremely quickly..unless they kill or silence the messenger again.
Now lets sing a song...pg 29 in your movement melodies book...
"Shout at the Devil".....
One doctrine I can't contend with and will not make any sense to me ever, is the taking or NOT taking of the bread and wine at the Memorial for the other sheep.
Yeah, I have a problem with that one, too. They seem to think that Jesus said to "keep passing the bread and wine in rememberance of me." To heck with what he says: If you don't drink or eat, you have no place in my kingdom. What makes passing the food the important thing? My kids and I share French bread this way at home because it's easy to serve it that way.
What?
What difference does that make? How important is that?
Well if you join my movement sister....you can stick the bread up a dog's ass...and substitute the wine for some Crown and coke if you like.
You can do whatever you like or see fit......just allow everyone else the same courtesy in return ok.
Now open your movement melodies book to pg 666 and lets sing "Heavens on Fire" together....we will then conclude however you see fit.,
lol
Eve told the serpent what God had told her: If I eat of the tree of the knowledge of good and bad I will surely die. To me that says...If she did NOT eat of the tree of good and bad, Eve would live forever and never die. Allowing her to eat of the tree of Life. Did God allow Satan to test Eve and then Adam just before giving Adam and Eve a taste of the tree of Life IF and only IF they were faithful.?
