Hmm...you guys sure that he was really talking about passing around wine and bread literaly...or was he talking about sharing of knowledge and information for free?
You don't even know for certain do you?
How much JW doctrine is in harmony with the Bible?
by OnTheWayOut 37 Replies latest watchtower beliefs
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Terry
When we wish to know what a certain word means we pick up the dictionary and look the word up.
I use to treat the dictionary as the authority on the word meanings in language.
But, then; I found out what the dictionary really was.
The dicitionary reflected the way speaking and writing society wanted to use particular words regardless of how they had previously been used.
I was broken-hearted.
No word was frozen in perpetuity like a fly preserved in amber.
People changed words by changing how they used them.
The dictionary is a delayed reaction; lurching forward into present use and falling behind, then; catching up again.
"Gay" once was light-hearted and happy and now it is homosexual.
The Bible is much like the dictionary. How so?
The Bible captured a moment in time over and over again when the stories in it were spoken words in oral traditions. Names, places, people and significances flowed with the telling. With the telling came political beliefs, ideologies and orthodoxies which shaped and changed how the story was re-told.
When it was written down, the Bible became proof for the writer of his own viewpoint and well-defined his own orthodoxy.
The redactions and translations came and went and came and went shaping like a chisel on marble the form that remained.
There is not just one Bible. There is not just one Judaism and there has never been just one Christianity.
So, what good is "harmony"?
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The Dragon
Finally...someone realizes the dictionary does not define someones words unless they want it to...if you are writing to followers and people who have their faith in the dictionary as their authority on the definitions of words..you will need to also use it as your authority so that they may understand you.
However....if you want to have your own language and definitions of words...nobody will understand you until they ask you for your thoughts and defitions..and if they try to use a dictionary to define your words...well...they will be lost and misled by their own hands and arrogance.
The Bible is it's own language...and it can define it's own words but you have to hunt and look very carefully to find the correct defintitions of the words. Or break weak and take the easy way and open a dictionary..see how far that gets you.
The Key to the Bible is......unlearn and learn.....take nothing at your own understanding..seek and try to find the truth and correct defintion.
Or rely on someone else to tell you what things to believe and take literal and what not to take literal...and be their bitch.
Hows that for freedom ofchoice?
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myelaine
Dragon said:
"Lazurus was dead...yet Jesus said he was "resting"
I have looked at it this way...Lazurus...#2976 of Hebrew origin Elazar...Eleazar...Numbers 3:32...
so the resurrection of Lazurus is a metaphor for Jesus' ability to resurrect the true priesthood with the power of God.(and "oversee" it through the coming Holy Spirit see Matthew 28:18-20)
I think I explained that right... anyway...
love michelle
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The Dragon
How will ever know for sure if you are correct or not?
Was Jesus trying to mislead anyone by telling them Lazarus was "resting"? Or was everyone else correct in saying he was "dead"? Or were they both right?
Why would He say resting?...instead of died? Did He have a reason?
Or is it unimportant?
Who has the answer to these questions...or do I have to continue to settle for guesses as answers?
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yaddayadda
White Dove, I think you pretty much hit the nail on the head when you said:
"I believe that a relegion can have all the truth in the world but lacking love, it is worthless in God's eyes like the Pharisees were. They knew everything of the law of Moses but lacked the whole point behind it. Worthless. To me, it doesn't matter how closely the JW's follow the Bible because they miss the whole point behind it. Sounding pieces of brass and clashing symbols."
I agree 100%. True Christianity is not measured in degrees of doctrinal correctness. It means little in the final analysis. -
Open mind
Zack said:
So if Christ came to restore all things, and the life he PROMISED
was in heaven, where does "living forever on a paradise Earth" fit in? Why not promise life on Earth?
Borg drone answer: "Happy are the mild-tempered ones, since they will inherit the earth".
There it is. Don't you see it? Here, let me show you a comic book picture of vegetarian lions hanging out at an inter-racial picnic to prove my point.
Terry:
The dictionary is a delayed reaction; lurching forward into present use and falling behind, then; catching up again.
I like that. Gonna try to remember it. I brought out on another post how most people nowadays think of the word "cult" in a negative sense. But Webster's first two or three definitions haven't "lurched forward" yet. It still pretty much just means "religion" according to Webster's. I'm sure that will change with the next edition.
Open Mind
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NanaR
Examples- Do they appear to be scripturally correct on any of these:
1) only the Father is truly God
2) no immortal soul
3) no hellfire
4) restoration of God's original purpose for earth
5) Eternal life for the faithfulYou asked for opinions, so I'll give mine. Not to inspire debate (I see the direction of this thread), but simply as a statement.
On point 1, Only the Father is truly God
I do not believe that to be correct scripturally, as Jesus is called both "Mighty God" and "Alpha and Omega". He is also given "the name that is above every other name". And no I am not looking up the citations, but I believe the Bible clearly supports the Divinity of Jesus so the Witnesses are wrong when they say Jesus is NOT God.
On point 2, No immortal soul
I do not believe that the scriptures rule out the doctrine of the immortality of the soul. "Do not fear those who can kill the body BUT CANNOT KILL THE SOUL". I choked every time I had to explain that away in field service. That and all the scriptural references to the spirit leaving the body and returning to God. Do I know WHAT the soul is exactly? No. So I'm not going to say it is MORTAL when I can't define what it is. JW theology regarding the soul reduces man to a higher animal rather than a creation in the image of God. "Let US make man in OUR IMAGE" --- oh yeah, that goes to point 1 as well.
Jesus debated the resurrection doctrine with the Saducees who did not believe in the resurrection. But he did not debate with the Pharisees about their view of the afterlife. Sometime, read what the Pharisees believed about the afterlife. You might be surprised (it's not what the Tower would have you believe.)
On point 3, no hellfire
I do not believe in a PLACE of literal fire. But then Pope John Paul II defined Hell as being eternally cut off from God. I believe that scriptural references to fire are symbolic of destruction. So maybe the Witnesses have this somewhat right.
On point 4, restoration of God's original purpose for the earth
I don't believe that God purposed for man to live forever on earth and then had to take a detour to give Satan dominion. I believe God knew that man needed to "grow up" (just as we who are parents know that our children have to grow up and that they will make mistakes while doing it). I believe it has always been God's purpose to support and sustain mankind during this earthly "growing up" phase of his/her existence so that in God's time man will be able to be a "new creation" living in God's presence. Revelation says that this will occur in a "new heavens and new earth".
On point 5, eternal life for the faithful
I don't agree that there are two classes of faithful people. I believe in eternal life in heaven for ALL faithful people. So they have the "eternal" part right but they are confused about the destination of the faithful.
The other point, which you don't mention, where I feel the Witnesses "have it right" is that both faith and works are required for salvation. "Faith without works is dead" but salvation is not BY works. Salvation is by Grace and Grace has as its fruitage the works of faith.
Just my opinion,
Ruth