Who is "us" Genesis 1:26

BFD

A few weeks ago I started a thread explaining that I wanted to read the entire bible for the first time. I had been reading the KJV and I read Revelation, John I, II, II and then I read John, Matthew, Mark, Luke using the KJV in that order at someone's suggestion here. I further took the suggestion of the poster and purchased an NIV Bible. Although I have many quetions regarding the NT I just wanted to read it once then seek answers to my questions after reading it again with the NIV.

So, now I have started reading the NIV from Genesis. Maybe my reading comprehension skills are not what they should be. But my question(s) are:

Who is the "us" and "our" referred to in Gen 1:26? I thought God created everything by Himself. ~~(Dare I say Trinity? again)~~

Also, Gen 4:13 Cain tells God his punishment is more than he can bear because "whoever finds me will kill me". Who else was on the earth and how did they get there?

I could barely get through the first 26 chapters because I have a multitude of questions. I think I am going to have to look for a bible study group near me in order to get through this. But in the meantime can anyone answer these first two questions?

Thanks,

BFD

PS If God wants us to know him, why does He make it so difficult?

stillajwexelder

Jesus and Jehovah - WTS society teaching is that Jesus is the Master Worker referred to in Proverbs - so everything was created through him. So the US is Father and Son helping each other out - isnt that sweet?

startingover

I did the same as you and started reading the bible in Genesis. Your questions are very valid and ones that I had too. Seems to me if there is a god and this is his means of communicating with man, then you should be able to read it and make perfect sense of it.

If you find a bible study group, IMO you are just going to get their opinions. I believe the answer is that the bible is not god's word, and is nothing more than Hebrew mythology. When I came to that conclusion suddenly everything made sense.

BFD

Thanks, stiila.

Startingover, just curious, did you finish the whole bible before you came to your conclusion?

BFD

Narkissos

A sample of what you could learn from using critical commentaries (e.g. Westermann's on Genesis)

- The shift from polytheism to monotheism in Israel/Judah occurred gradually, along and through the writing of the Hebrew Bible -- hence, in spite of their latest monotheistic editions, the texts contain a number of "polytheistic slips" which reflect the older religious mindset; Genesis 1:26 is one of them (referring to the assembly of gods); so 3:22 or 6:1-4 etc.

- The basic frame of Cain's story was not originally part of the "primeval narratives". It worked, in part, as an etiology of the Qenites (or Cainites), a nomadic people with a long ambiguous relationship with settled Israel. Once moved to the context of the beginnings of mankind, with Cain and Abel becoming the first children of the first human pair, a number of details in the story (such as Cain marrying in another country or fearing violence from "anybody") do not make sense anymore.

M.J.

Contrast this with Isaiah 44:24

Thus saith Jehovah, thy Redeemer, and he that formed thee from the womb: I am Jehovah, that maketh all things; that stretcheth forth the heavens alone; that spreadeth abroad the earth (who is with me?);

BFD

Thank you Narkissos. So originally the beleif was polytheisim? Interesting. I wonder why it changed. 3:22 was another question I had. And 6:1-4, has me utterly confused. I thought Jesus was God's only son. How could the sons of God marry women? I stated that I have a multitude of questions and I'm not kidding.

I will never get an understanding of this on my own. But I set a goal to read it through and I will do at least that much.

Thanks, again

BFD

White Dove

I too am starting over with the Bible at John by comparing the NWT, NIV, and NKJV. I'm taking an accedemic approach as I have little to no faith. The way I understand the trinity is that there are 3 separate ruling persons who work together in perfect sync as a unit called God. Kind of like a ruling family of 3 with the family name of God. I can't seem to get past the idea of Jesus raising himself from the dead, but that could be because I haven't learned enough of how the body and spirit could be separate. I was told that just Jesus' body died but his spirit lived. I tend to feel that if this is all real, it should be easier to understand, Holy Spirit (might be a person?) or no Holy Spirits assistance. Oh, and by the way, did you notice in the NWT Doubting Thomas asked to see the holes of the nailS in Jesus' hands? Nails plural not singular as would be the case if he died on the cross. Interesting. Oh and another thing, why did Stephen tell Jesus to "receive my spirit" if his soul was going to die too and he would not go to heaven yet?

Leolaia

In the context of OT Israelite theology, the answer would be the lesser deities known variously as the 'dt 'l "assembly of El" (Psalm 82:1), kwkby 'l "stars of El" at the hr mw'd "mountain of assembly" (Isaiah 14:12), the kwkby bqr "morning stars" (Job 38:7), the qdshym "holy ones" (Job 5:1, Psalm 89:6-7, Zechariah 14:5), the 'lym "gods" (cf. Deuteronomy 32:43 LXX, and 'lym in Qumran texts), and the bny 'lym/bny 'lhym/bny h-lhym "sons of God" (Genesis 6:2-3, Job 1:6, 2:1, Psalm 29:1, 89:6). See especially their presence at creation in Job 38:7: "Where were you when I laid the earth's foundation ... while the morning stars sang together and all the sons of God shouted for joy". The sapiential tradition has a seperate conception of Yahweh being accompanied with "wisdom" at creation (Proverbs 8:22-31), and this is the tradition that is later taken up in late Hellenistic Jewish theology (cf. Philo of Alexandria), and subsequent NT pre-existence christologies. The Deutero-Isaiah portrayal of creation is markedly different by depicting Yahweh as alone: "I am Yahweh, who made all things, who alone stretched out the heavens, when I spread out the earth, who was with me?" (Isaiah 44:24). This may have been a deliberate response to the Priestly creation account in Genesis 1, as there are many other counterpoints in this section of Deutero-Isaiah (see also Isaiah 40:18, 46:5 on Yahweh not having an "image" or "likeness" as implied in Genesis 1:26, Isaiah 45:7, 18 on Yahweh not creating the earth a waste and having darkness precede his creation of light as it is in Genesis 1:2, Isaiah 40:48 on Yahweh not growing tired or weary as it is implied in Genesis 2:2-3, and the rhetorical question in Isaiah 40:21 that questions whether the person he is criticizing really understands "how the earth was founded").

startingover

Startingover, just curious, did you finish the whole bible before you came to your conclusion?

BFD, Actually, I didn't get farther than a few chapters. As questions arose, I started researching and it didn't take me long to feel I had been the victim of a scam passed on to me by my parents. I feel I have a logical mind, so having to use faith as a reason to accept something never fit me. If you've taken off your faith colored glasses things look so different.

Start looking into the "elohim" thing you are now discovering. I would like to know the outcome for you.

One of my favorite reads now was written by Runningman on this forum, he has posted all the chapters of his book here, it's called the "Athiest's Book of Bible Stories" . If you have a logical mind, his book is, as he terms it "some chicken soup for the athiest's soul"

Who is "us" Genesis 1:26

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