reasoning

by BR25 29 Replies latest watchtower bible

  • fokyc
    fokyc

    How about if a JW husband (rank and file) commits adultry and is disfellowshipped and an Elder commits adultry and is not disfellwshipped.

    Or an Elders daughter gets pregant out of wedlock and is not disfellowshipped and a daughter of a R&F gets pregant and is disfellowshipped.

    Or an Elders son is caught in a homosexual act and is not disfellowshipped and a R&F's son is and is disfellowshipped...

    How right ZeroDay is; each one of these events has occured in my wifes congregation, makes me sick!

    fokyc

  • Gopher
    Gopher
    I understand that some people left the jw faith and some people on here may never have been jws or believed in it, so I understand why you post and give info back and forth, but I have trouble understanding some of the disfellowshipped ones on here.

    I'm disfellowshipped, maybe I can help.

    To be disfellowshipped most of the time it is for something that even a non jw would not think is right,

    Do you know of a survey or a scientific study to support this assessment? A lot of "non JW" people are not as judgmental as this assessment would make them seem.

    but I feel that some come on here for an outlet or try to find some relief of being disfellowshipped, whereas if you just left the congregation and was not disfellowshipped you might not even care to come on here.

    This is patently untrue. We have many members on here who are fading away from JW's (trying to "just leave"), and many who did fade away without getting an official sanction from the local congregation. People who "just leave" have some very interesting reasons for doing so, and they tell those reasons on boards like this.

    My point is most people dont just wake up the next day after being disfellowshipped and automatically stop believing in the jw faith, but then they come on here and try to make it ok, and everyone makes it ok for them which is alright. You can do what you want, but I think alot of disfellowshipped ones come on here to grant themselves some kind of immunity.

    True, it takes a while to unlearn the traits, such as fear, prejudice and narrow-mindedness, that composed our mindset that we had while we were JW's. It's a process of learning to trust yourself and to not be so judgmental of strangers. If the "offense" for which one was disfellowshipped involved no crime or harm to another person, as is often the case, then why should any person try to continue to justify the disfellowshipping as enforced by the Watchtower Society and Jehovah's Witnesses? Since my disfellowshipping several years ago, I have talked to several non-JW's of many different beliefs about the effects it had on my relationship with past friends and family. I have yet to find one person who agrees with the Watchtower policy of shunning its ex-members.

    To be disfellowshipped you probably did something that there is not a good excuse for what you did. So then you feel guilty and you come on here looking for answers then everyone gives you all these logical reasons you are looking for.

    Not all disfellowshippings fit into this broad picture. I have been on this board for 6 years now, and I have seen a LOT more people upset with the Watchtower policy of enforced shunning than I have seen people feeling guilty. Can you support this 'then you feel guilty' assertion? I think that is an astonishing piece of mind-reading. And yes, people here DO provide logical reasons why the Watchtower teachings and practices are illogical.

    then you start blasting the jw faith with all the hatred you got built up in you

    I agree there's a lot of blasting the JW faith here. The religion is so illogical, has had so many twists and turns, and now is basically there to protect itself by promoting fear and hatred of anything that doesn't agree with it. Have you ever considered carefully how HATEFUL the Watchtower literature is to outside institutions and to its former members? This religion has convinced my parents to trust elders whom they don't even know instead of me, their own son. And then my parents are told in the Watchtower literature that ex-members in the family are to be avoided at all costs, out of loyalty to the organization. That is a hateful and misguided policy. If people's faith is strong and if the beliefs were truth, it would hold up even if a member of that faith maintained a family relationship with a non-member.

    Most of you dont know what is said on here, what scriptures or info is on here,

    How long did it take you to reach this conclusion? You've only been on here a few days, and you really don't know many people here. I would say that many of us know the scriptures quite well. I was a ministerial servant, an auxiliary pioneer, and gave public talks. As a JW, I was able to use scriptures to explain what I believed at the time. A lot of posters on here, DF'd or not, really are quite knowledgeable.

    your posts turn into I am glad I am out, I always knew that it was a false religion, and so forth. This is total BS in my opinion,

    Well, some people who were raised a JW were very skeptical about it from a young age. (They had strong BS detectors.) For them, they can make this statement. For most of us, it took a while to discover that it was a false religion. However, most people do not claim "I always knew it was a false religion". It is true that they had doubts, I did -- even when I was a loyal adult JW. From what I see, most JW's have a few private doubts, but not enough to leave. Only after getting DF'd and doing research, my inner doubts about certain doctrines and practices became confirmed.

    IN CONCLUSION, you have painted many DF'd posters here with a broad brush. Many of us felt we were doing the right thing by trying to be loyal JW's. Then some came into a position that put them into the WT judicial process, which is inconsistent, often shows favoritism, often breaks up families, and is clearly in place to shield the organization itself rather than out of a concern for any people involved in the process.

    Coming here to express our disappointment, and sometimes anger, with this process is part of the healing. I'm long over that anger, but I will always denounce the control tactics enforced by the JW leadership.

  • purplesofa
    purplesofa
    To be disfellowshipped most of the time it is for something that even a non jw would not think is right,but I feel that some come on here for an outlet or try tofind some relief of being disfellowshipped, whereas if you just left the congregation and was not disfellowshipped you might not even care to come on here.

    I think coming here to get relief from being disfellowshipped is avery valid reason to come here. Most who have been DF loose every friend and family they have. They are isolated, shunned, sentenced to death. I wish everyone that is DF would/could have a chance to come here. Everyone needs encouragement and an outlet, a friend when in need.

    My point is most people dont just wake up the next day after being disfellowshipped and automatically stop believing in the jw faith, but then they come on here and try to make it ok, and everyone makes it ok for them which is alright. You can do what you want, but I think alot of disfellowshipped ones come on here to grant themselves some kind of immunity. Like I said before you just dont wake up the next day and stop believing.

    What happened for me when I came to this forum, I was looking for a JW place to hang out online. I did not know it was "apostate" Alot of doubts I was having became validated here for me. Falling out of love is much like falling in love, it does not happen overnight.

    To be disfellowshipped you probably did something that there is not a good excuse for what you did. So then you feel guilty and you come on here looking for answers then everyone gives you all these logical reasons you are looking for.

    Believe it or not, there are some very logical reasons, and good excuses for what a person does. And I have found that love and compassion, understanding and empathy go a long way in helping someone. Not alienating them.

    purps

  • Hortensia
    Hortensia

    how about cutting people some slack? How about live and let live? how about letting people run their own lives and not attributing bad motives to them? It's not good for you to be so cynical. There are very few people on earth, JW or not, who haven't seriously screwed up at least once in life. If we start pointing the other guy's flaws, sooner or later we step in our own shit and smell just as bad as the guy we were condemning.

    so to address your point, so what? So what if someone gets df'd and comes on this forum and vents and blames the WTBTS when the truth is he/she did screw up? It's part of a growth process.

  • Hortensia
    Hortensia

    "Most of you dont know what is said on here, what scriptures or info is on here, but when you find out, your posts turn into I am glad I am out, I always knew that it was a false religion, and so forth. This is total BS in my opinion, most of you probably dont know or think these things till you come on here, and some of you would never come on here if you did nothing wrong and you know it."

    I just read this over again. Kinda arrogant, aren't you? You don't even know the people who post here - you don't know anything about any of us except what we post here. So how can you generalize like this? If you don't like what you are reading, go judge the folks on some other forum.

  • brinjen
    brinjen
    So what if someone gets df'd and comes on this forum and vents and blames the WTBTS when the truth is he/she did screw up? It's part of a growth process.

    My point exactly, regardless of what anyone here may have done to get d'fd, none of it changes the hyprocrisy of the dubs. You don't know the person, you don't know the circumstances that led to do what they did.

  • OnTheWayOut
    OnTheWayOut
    To be disfellowshipped you probably did something that there is not a good excuse for what you did.

    Just starting with that statement. When it is the case that someone did something considered
    a sin, they didn't feel that the elders or the organization's policies helped them very much. They
    are so "Protect-the-organization-and-God's-name" first, help-the-publisher second.

    Also, many disfellowshipped ones finally have the boldness and freedom to start looking at
    so-called Apostate information, and they learn that WTS is not God's representative.

    Looking at it a different way, is drinking a little too much or having sexual relations without the
    benefit of marriage really something to have all your family and friends shun you over. You need
    love and understanding. Many get disfellowshipped because they disagree with the elders' way of
    handling the situation. Perhaps a "brother" has relations with a "worldly" woman and he loves her
    but the elders DF him unless he promises to never see her again. Up until that moment, he never
    questioned the elders or the doctrines. We should never try to put our standards onto someone
    else. Even adultery, I totally hate it, but there are some living in a loveless marriage. Who am I to
    decide that their grandmother should now never speak to them?

    You said "most of the time it is for something that even a non jw would not think is right, but I feel
    that some come on here for an outlet or try to find some relief of being disfellowshipped, whereas
    if you just left the congregation and was not disfellowshipped you might not even care to come on here."

    I was not DF'ed. I am just fading from activity with JW's. I come here for support and guidance because
    I have family still in the religion. Many have different reasons.

  • golf2
    golf2

    BR. I understand your position. My last disfellowshipping was based on two elders not believing that I was repentant !!!!! They knew me better than I knew myself, well, that was it for me. It was also 'it' for my wife at the time. For elders to speak on my behalf, determing that I wasn't repentant, good-bye folks !!!!! I don't nor do I need a laundry list to leave the org.
    Every case is different.
    Golf

  • zeroday
    zeroday
    My last disfellowshipping was based on two elders not believing that I was repentant !!!!!

    That is an astounding statement Golf. Who the hell are these pious self rightous sob's that they can decide if you are or are not repentant... Maybe if you were an elder or related to one it would be obvious you were repentant...

  • ferret
    ferret

    Br25 I think your reasoning is B.S.

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