by frankiespeakin 35 Replies latest watchtower beliefs
Sey,
....What is a sound? A wave...whether one is there to detect that wave is irrelevant....the wave would exists regardless.
A sound is imaginary, it is formed in the minds, it does not exist without a mind, it is the minds way of interpeting waves of vibrations within a very limited range.
As for example: How does an Ameba know the uninverse? I'm sure it's view point and perspective is as valid as ours, as well as different.
Yep, i agree - it would seem that there is a place/contribution/whatever for everything that exists and also for its perspective in the larger frame of present day existance. Completely hypothesizing here. Wouldn't it be amazing if one day we could understand/perceive the whole picture and all its parts - or at least more than we know now.
Just as we can play observer to the world and then by some strange means also be an observer to our own thoughts, can there be a "Ultimate Observer"? Some thing that observes everything, every thought, every feeling, something that encompases all consciousness?
Have been reading a bit re the above. Its a good way to make sense of life - so long as we understand that it is subjective experience and would need reality checks.
Bern,
By the term "reality checks" do you mean what the human collective presupposes reality to be based apon our middle world senses?
frankie
By the term "reality checks" do you mean what the human collective presupposes reality to be based apon our middle world senses?
but yes - staying open though -
as humans we have such a propensity and imagination for weaving stories around kernels of truth
I've thought about this for a while and decided that YES it would all be the same.
Humans are NOT the centre of the universe and if we all disappeared today or tomorrow, those rain drops would still fall and still make a noise!
WE don't matter, except to ourselves.
Our perception is simply that, how we perceive, but it does not alter actions as we are not in control of the universe in any way, we just perceive.
If we close our eyes, and can't see what is happening, the 'happening' will still 'happen'.
Gill
Humans are NOT the centre of the universe and if we all disappeared today or tomorrow, those rain drops would still fall and still make a noise!
My question was: Without "Any" Observer Can The Universe Exist? I did not mean just human observers. As far as rain drop making a noise that would depend on whether or not a entity had capasity to interpet wave vibrations as noise, for vibrations do not make sounds it is our minds that give us the illusion of sound.
Yes! I think it would.
'ovserving' is only light hitting the back of retinas, or even (if you want to get complicated) spirit creatures or aliens obserivng. If there was NO LIVING OBSERVER, Yes, I think the universe would still be there, happening, existing.
But what if we ARE the Universe? Is that what you mean?
That's what I find so interesting about the ideas of 'reincarnationists' and 'scientists'. WE are what make up rocks, algae, worms, animals, plants. Do we keep being 'reprogrammed' and our very existence is what makes the universe.
If we 'observers' be it any of the organic or inorganic things that exist ceased to be, or be influenced by eachother, then does the Universe Exist?
A 'Nik Nak Noo!!!!' question, as one of my sons who thinks far tooooo much would say!
Then, we come across the possibility that we don't really exist at all, in the first place!
Does matter exist without energy? OR does Energy exist without matter? If you can't have one without the other, then we MUST exist.
Without.....you have vacuum!
Gill
Our perception is simply that, how we perceive, but it does not alter actions as we are not in control of the universe in any way, we just perceive.
I would argue that the fact that each individual is unique and each creature is unique demonstrates that we do have a certain degree of effect on the universe albiet a minuscule one.
bernadette
Gill,
Then, we come across the possibility that we don't really exist at all, in the first place!
I guess we can give several meanings to the word exist. Just like "matter" isn't really solid or is it? It all depends on meaning and to what level we wish to take the subject. Matter at our ordinary level in which our senses operate it appears solid, but at the sub atomic level it is empty and merely just force fields, and if we go to levels even smaller what does it become? String theory any one?
