Did you REALLY ever have faith in God or was it more in men?

by avidbiblereader 16 Replies latest jw friends

  • middlechild
    middlechild

    Did I even have faith in anything at all? I just did everything because that's what I was supposed to do. I got baptized at 15 because that's what I was supposed to do. In one of my pre-baptism meetings the elder said, "of course, you've gone to Jehovah in prayer and dedicated your life to him, right?" I was like, o yeah. So I went home that night and did that. Every prayer before every meal and before bedtime was exactly the same, not heartfelt but rote. I was 4th in my graduating class but didn't go to college or even want to go because that's not what you're supposed to do. Instead I pioneered after school and went to pioneer school. I only ever worked part-time, just to support my pioneering, because that's what I was supposed to do.

    Faith in God? For what? He's not doing anything for us. Being a Witness ruined any chance of naivety in that area. Wouldn't it be nice for just one minute to think there's a God who cares and is involved in our lives and I could talk to him and feel some sense of comfort from him? I know better. Thanks for all the enlightenment, JW org!

    Maybe I had faith in my parents? What a joke!

  • avidbiblereader
    avidbiblereader

    Hello FreeWilly and thanks for posting

    Do you ever worry that your 'relationship' with God exists merely in your mind?

    NO, I don't worry about that at all and glad that I have relationship now.

    Afterall, this must be the case for those of other religions - yes? If you are an ABR, then you likely discount the validity of millions of other people's 'relationship' with God. For them it DOES exist ONLY in their minds.

    I dont worry about others and who is right and try to figure out who is or isn't, I have LEARNED this is not my call or duty as a Christian, As a witness I was judgmental and pray that God does forgive me for such arrogance and ignorance. Yes I truly do love to read the Bible and try to as much as possible and within reason. Whether or not it is only in their minds is not my call or descision.

    Yet you are different -what makes you so certain its not the same mental trick?

    I don't proclaim to be different, just when I consider where my faith was, it was built around men and an organization, completely misdirected, yes it takes faith to put into someone you cannot see but nonetheless this is where it is at and I wouldn't want it any other way. I thnk and believe that we are all so scarred and beaten like the sheep in Christ day when the religious leaders harassed the flocks into submission to men and not God. I see God as a loving person that the witness do not REALLY teach about, One that considers all things and reads the hearts of men,

    Like many of other religious beliefs, yours likely follows a similar model. You believe (I suspect) writings in an ancient holy book that dipicts supernatural interractions between God and humans from a time long long ago - events whose veracity is extremely difficult to substantiate with evidence.

    You are coorect in saying that I believe in the Bible and its ancient writings. I believe in them doesn't mean that I understand everything and only now as a non-witness do I feel comfortable in saying this. However I know that what I do not know is NOT important to bringing Glory to God and salvation. It really isn't important whether I understand all things, as Paul said "make sure of the more important things", those things are not really important as faith in Christ and to God the Father belongs Glory and not to any man or organization.

    And, just like those other belief systems, yours too must explain why these depicted supernatural interractions, for some reason, are never observed or substantiated by evidence today. This leaves modern believers of religious writings today with no other choice but to accept the supernatural claims of these ancient writings on the basis of "belief", "faith" or some other concept that overlooks and avoids tangible, confirmable evidence.

    Must I explain what is not important to me as outlined in the teachings of Christ, simple faith in his sacrifice as I acknowledge my own sinfullness and yet do not use it as an excuse but realize that this is important and not my own self vindication or righteousness, which mean absolutely nothing. It is not about me or anyone, any religious system but rather our own personal relationship with God through Christ and our own willingness to admit that we don't know everything but it really isn't important as showing love as demonstrated with God and Christ. No wonder Christ asked the simple question and the apostles focused on faith in Christ, as simple as it may seem and yet Christ said, "when the Son aof Man returns, will he find the faith on the earth?" The witnesses have destroyed my faith in organized religion whether I am right or wrong, but not my faith in God where it should have been all along. I will never trust another man when it comes to God and Chirst.

    How do you explain the descrepancy of miraculouse historical dipictions, yet their complete absence in our modern experience?

    What convinces you that your beliefs represent reality?

    I don't know everything but as a child acknowledges a father's abundant wisdom and knowledge above and beyond his own, I do the same and throw my trust and burdens on the One who has carried me this far and especially since I left the bondage of spiritual darkness and following men.

    Thanks again for your comments and respectfully to you,

    abr

  • avidbiblereader
    avidbiblereader

    Middlechild welcome and this is exactly what I am talking about, a religious system that tells you everything to do and no personal relationship with God and equating everything that the org does as God and yet the two of them have nothing in common. I too was so disillusioned when I left and felt the same way until one day I begged God to open my mind as he was able with the Bible writers and allow me to see what He wants me to see from His Word, what a difference from the 22 years wasted as a witness.

    abr

  • frankiespeakin
    frankiespeakin

    I was indoctrinated by the catholic church durring my early yrs till the age of 14 or there abouts, the JW took over my indoctrination from my 19th year till 49 yrs old. That's a whole lot of indoctrination that has to be sorted thru and intelligently disguarded.

    Yes I had faith in God indoctrinated into me, and yes it was in men too, I suppose to a degree. After all where did the bible come from? It came from men who claimed to be inspired. So if you follow it, your faith is in the men that wrote it, faith that they actually were inspired, you can't get around it.

    After a more honest look at the bible and the God portrayed in it's pages, I was able to discern that it was just a myth just like Zeus, Apollo, and Thor are all myths, this myth is just hung around and is beleived a little longer that those out dated ones. I'm not saying there is no God, what I'm saying is I'm 100% sure the bible God is a myth, made in man's image and likeness, with all the petty jealousys, and violent rage that humans have.

  • Narkissos
    Narkissos

    I think I did to an extent. Of course it was much of "God from the JW perspective" but it was not just "faith in an organisation / in men" either.

    The WT (like other religions) does exploit "faith in God" among its members because such faith exists. The all-too-famous "wait on Jehovah" motto (when you disagree with something the organisation teaches, feel you are the victim of an injustice etc.) only works inasmuch as, to the average JW, there is more to "Jehovah" than "the organisation," no matter how deeply connected those are in his/her mind. Most JWs would not choose to jeopardise financial security, or a fortiori put one's life in danger (on the blood issue for instance) just for a human organisation -- if they didn't really believe that there is a God caring for them and their choices.

    This reminds me of an example that struck me at the time I was df'd. One friend of mine with whom I had been "pioneering" for the last few months was df'd a couple of days before me. His mother was a JW too -- an illiterate Portuguese woman about 60 years old, who had given birth to 15 children (and lost several of them). When he talked with her on the phone that day he didn't mention he had just been df'd but she "felt" something was wrong. She jumped into the next train to visit her son (600 km away) and spent the next few days with both of us to help and comfort as she could. She had no idea why we were labeled "apostates," nor where the WT might be wrong, but it was very clear in her mind that "Jehovah" and "the organisation" were two hugely different things. After we were both finally df'd (appeal committee), as we had nowhere to go (we were sub-renting the flat of a JW couple) she let us her home as she was going away for a month. Although she was not there when we were she later faced reproof from her congregation elders for doing that. When her son married in a Baptist church years later, she attended, enjoyed the sermon, sang the songs, talked with me etc. Yet until very recently she "auxiliary pioneered" quite regularly. She died last year. Whenever I think positively of "belief in God" as exceeding doctrine or religion I think of her.

  • The wanderer
    The wanderer

    Personally, my faith was in God and not in men. However,
    in time the organization came to replace God and so my
    faith started to twindle.

    Today, I do not allow religions or organizations claiming
    to represent God to either influence me or stand in my
    way.

    I have decided that I should keep an open-mind about
    God and not let an organization or individuals dissuade
    me about a Creator, Designer, or Almighty God.

    Respectfully,

    The Wanderer

  • jaguarbass
    jaguarbass

    I was a witnoid for 1953 to 1983 during that time my faith was in God from a witness perspective. From 83 to about 2003 I had faith in God based on my understanding of the bible. From about 2003 to today I have a hard time having faith in God based on my understanding of the bible.

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