Arguments JW's can't argue with.....I think???

by Adolfius 10 Replies latest watchtower beliefs

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  Adolfius

  These are just a couple of arguments I think would cause any half sane JW (if any current and actively brainwashed "true believer" could ever be described as sane), to stop and think for themselves.

  Thinking person: Is the bible and the events it describes true and factual?

  JW: Yes.....to the letter.

  Thinking person: Could evolution be true?

  JW: No way.

  Thinking person: Ok, so I just want to get this perfectly clear; evolution in no way happened, is happening, or possibly ever will happen? God created just two people in the form of Adam (a man) and Eve (a woman), presumably both of the same ethnic origin, and this happened roughly six thousand years ago?

  JW: Precisely.

  Thinking person: Ok, and then Adam & Eve proceeded to pro-create and gradually populate the earth. After much inbreeding and a few too close for comfort relationships between family members, they eventually got to a point 2000 years later where they had populated the local area and filled it with a disgusting collection of evil people whom god decreed he would have to kill by causing it to rain (heavily) and thus drown the lot of 'em. All except one small family who's father (or brother, or son, or all three depending on which way you looked at it) was called Noah. Noah and his close knit family were going to be spared and therefore given the responsibilty of starting the re-population process all over again from scratch. Have I got the basic idea of it?

  JW: Yep, that's the way we see it.

  Thinking person: Alright then. And this all happened just 4000 years ago by your calculations?

  JW: Indeed

  Thinking person: And I just want to confirm that evolution is in no way possible. Correct?

  JW: Correct. Evolution is not possible. The bible clearly tells us that we were created and the bible is 100% factual and correct. I know it's 100% factual and correct because it tells me so.

  Thinking person: Splendid. So can you explain how, in just four thousand years since Noah gingerly stepped out of the Ark on to the sodden ground bereft of any life forms, (because at this point the last two survivors of each species, every last one of them, was still crammed into the Ark), did one family, who I presume were all of the same ethnic origin, or at best two ethinic origins if God had the fore thought to create Adam & Eve as separate races, manage to populate the earth with the diversity that we see today? I mean how did we get from just one colour of skin and facial features to the great and wonderful variations that we see all over the planet? Black, White, Asian, Native Australians, Incas, Aztecs, Oriental and all the slight differences in between?

  After all, evolution absolutely can not happen. We didn't evolve to different skin types. There wasn't a slow progression from one to the other to suit the needs of living in different part of the planet because that would be evolution......evolving to adapt to the environment, and the bible tells us that isn't true.

  Now I'm not arguing with you on that point JW. I'm more than prepared to believe you and accept that we were created. I can buy that. But......and it's a big but as I'm sure you'll agree. If all the different races on the planet didn't evolve, the only alternative is they were all created. But the bible says that God only created two people; Adam and Eve.

  So here's my argument. As I see it there are only two possibilities. Either all the different races of people evolved, in which case the bible's version of events is wrong. OR, all the different races were created, in which case the bible's version of events is still wrong. God would have had to create a male and female from each ethnic background, and keep at least a male and female from each race alive during the flood and after. Either way you look at it the bible's version of events is wrong. You see, you simply can't have it both ways.

  So what do you say to that?

  JW: Ugh, umm, argh. Listen I'm not going to sit here and listen to a trouble maker like you. I know I've got the truth and that's all I need to know. If you want to listen to the false teachings of the "world", that's up to you, but don't come around here trying to discourage others.

  JW later that day whilst thinking to himself: He had a point you know, I'd never thought about it like that before. "Right stop thinking Bob, that's Satan getting into your head. Just listen to the old baffoons in Bethel, trust what they tell you without question and you'll be alright". Phew, seemed to crush that little rebellion........right, where's my Daily text from the scriptures?

  Ok, I was going to write a second argument, but I think I've gone on enough for now. I'll come back tomorrow for the second one.

  I hope this gives some food for thought and maybe some ammunition to hit them with next time they come a'knocking!
• 

  Tuesday

  You haven't heard the one about Noah somehow being able to breed children of the different races?

  Japheth was European

  Ham was African

  Shem was Asian

  Jokey was a Smuf.....
• 

  thecarpenter

  this arguement won't work because it would be the same as the different species of dogs, cats, horse, cows, etc...
  If I was still a JW, I would say that Jehovah God merely activated different genes in the DNA to produce different variations within a species.
  Problem solved!
• 

  LtCmd.Lore

  Welcome Adolfius.

  Man I wish it were that easy... Unfortunately they do believe in micro evolution, but not macro evolution. (Yeah, you and I both know it's the same stinkin thing, but they don't.)

  ***g822/8pp.13-14TheRaces—WhatIsTheirOrigin?***

  Skin

  Color

  According to the Bible, all humans descend from Noah, through his three sons Shem, Japheth and Ham. Genesis chapter 10 lists 70 descendants of Noah saying: "From these the nations were spread about in the earth." (Genesis 10:32) One of the many ways in which these nations have been classified is with reference to skin color. In the skin of allnormalhumans is a blackish brown pigment called melanin.

  Noah and his three sons all had a measure of this dark pigment. From Shem came the Babylonians, the Assyrians, the Jews and the Arabs who vary from fair to light-brown skin. The descendants of Japheth, who include the Indo-European races, vary from light skin to dark brown. As for Ham (meaning swarthy or sun-burnt), some, but not all, of his descendants had dark skin. The Egyptians, with light-brown skin, descended from Ham’s son Mizraim. Ham’s son Canaan, who was cursed by God because of bad conduct, was the forefather of the light-skinned Canaanites.

  In agreement with this, Dr. Hughes, a professor of anthropology at the University of Toronto, said: "On every continent, and in every geographically defined race, there is a considerable range of variation in . . . skin pigmentation, . . . the Tamils of South India are considered by many anthropologists to be members of the Caucasoid [white Indo-European] major race, yet in skin pigmentation they are darker than many African Negroes."

  All of this shows how foolish it is to interpret God’s curse on Canaan as referring to a dark-skinned people. All divisions of mankind have a dark pigment in their skin, some to a lesser, others to a greater extent.

  BUT, if you're interested in confronting them about evolution, I think you'll LOVE this: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Vadoma

  http://wtfwear.blogspot.com/2007/04/entire-population-of-people-with.html

  If that doesn't count as documented proof of human evolution I don't know what could.
• 

  Adolfius

  Thanks LtCmd.Lore for the link.

  I escaped the troof 12 years ago as a late teenager, so I'm not 100% up to date with their crap, so you'll all have to excuse me if I missed their "water tight" explanation to argue how we evolved without evolving. I see what the argument for activating genes and the like says, and I take the point.

  However, it still seems to me that as with most things, they pick and choose, and if they have no proof to back up their doctrine, they simply say, "well we don't know how jehovah acts or how he makes things happen. It's not for us to question or think about these things". That's exactly what my still believing parents say to me whenever I try to point out the gaping holes in their interpretations.

  As a child, if I ever noticed things that simply didn't make sense to the obvious black and white mind of a child, my mother would tell me I was being possessed by demons that were making me think like that.

  But as to my point, evolution is evolution however you look at it. Adapting to suit your environment and selecting the most beneficial genes or traits, is evolution.

  From what I remember, god doesn't interfere with humans, or does he? I really can't remember. Would he step in and activate different genes?

  Thanks

  Adolfius
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  Anti-Christ

  Hi Adolfius, I have an argument that I would like to try with the JW, here it goes

  The reason why Adam and Eve had the possibility to sin is because of free will right?

  JW: right

  can Jehovah sin?

  JW: no

  can the 144000 sin or Jesus sin after they are resurrected in haven?(the bible said that they will be immortal)

  JW:no

  so do they still have free will?

  JW:???????????

  I don't know if this is a good argument but I want to try it. What does every body think of it?
• 

  greendawn

  Welcome to the forum adelfius, the JWs are so brain washed it's hard to make them see the truth about their supposed truth.

  They think they are the elite of the world and everyone else is substandard. Closer to home their prophecies/predictions have failed messing up many lives that had invested a lot in them. Their doctrines are also more than debatable since they are always discarding and changing them and not developing them as they claim.
• 

  Anti-Christ

  They think they are the elite of the world and everyone else is substandard. Closer to home their prophecies/predictions have failed messing up many lives that had invested a lot in them. Their doctrines are also more than debatable since they are always discarding and changing them and not developing them as they claim.

  !!!!!!!!!!!!!
• 

  zack

  Micro v. Macro Evolution

  Excellent way of summing up Witness belief.
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  Odrade

  I was always taught (as a JW) that there is a clear distinction between adaptation and evolution. Thus species could "adapt" to the surroundings, changing generationally to suit their needs, yet never "evolve." Pretty stupid.