Quantum Universe

by undercover 35 Replies latest jw friends

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  undercover

  An acquaintance was telling me about how there have been some new discoveries in quantum mechanics and that "everything we know is going to change", his words. He said that these top scientists and physicists have already met with the world's top religious leaders and explained to them what they have discovered and how it will change everyone's perception about reality.

  I'm not all that informed on quantum mechanics and all that scientific mumbo-jumbo other than to know that some people believe that there are parallel universes and that it might be possible(?) that we exist in different universes at the same time.

  From what this guy was telling me, I gathered (I think) that reality and our perception of reality is based on nothing tangible except information. Everything we know, see, feel, touch is all based on how we process the mathmatics of the information present. As he explained it, I kept picturing the movie "The Matrix" where reality wasn't reality but a program, information if you will. I know that's simplistic, but it's the best my brain can do to handle that kind of thing. It was all very confusing to me, but the guy telling me about it was all excited about it and said that in a very short time, we will all be exposed to the ramifications of these new findings.

  Anyone here keep up with that kind of stuff and can it be explained in layman's term so us dum-dums can understand it?
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  SacrificialLoon

  Sounds like a crackpot to me.
• 

  Cindi_67

  To me is a very interesting subject although I do not have the brains to understand it all. I started reading a few books under that subject and seems very complicated. However it made me think, we have been created at God's image. He gave us the brains and the intelligence. If human beings are capable to deal with such profounds subjects, then there must be something real about it. We will never be able to understand the misteries and secrets of the Universe, so what if some of those theories are true? God himself is a mystey and to our eyes it's almost impossible to believe that there is a being countless of times more powerful than we are, incapable of dying. He defies all physics, or at least what we think are the rules of physics. So, what these scientists are trying to discover might as well be God's realm.

  Many years ago it was impossible to believe that the Universe held Black Holes, that those things couldn't exist. But they do. And men have been able to discover them and explain them. That we don't understand the physics of it, does not make it unreal.

  But if there is somebody out there that is into these things and can explain like we are 5 years old, please do so.

  Thank you
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  undercover

  Sounds like a crackpot to me.

  That was my initial reaction as well. However, I did some Internet research on quantum mechanics and the like and some of what he told me is in some of the papers I've read online. But who's to say that whoever wrote those papers aren't crackpots too?

  The theories are over my head. I know that.
• 

  Terry

  From what this guy was telling me, I gathered (I think) that reality and our perception of reality is based on nothing tangible except information. Everything we know, see, feel, touch is all based on how we process the mathmatics of the information present. As he explained it, I kept picturing the movie "The Matrix" where reality wasn't reality but a program, information if you will. I know that's simplistic, but it's the best my brain can do to handle that kind of thing. It was all very confusing to me, but the guy telling me about it was all excited about it and said that in a very short time, we will all be exposed to the ramifications of these new findings.

  Anyone here keep up with that kind of stuff and can it be explained in layman's term so us dum-dums can understand it?

  This is mostly recycled Immanuel Kant.

  Reality actually exists.

  We know reality because of our senses. We sense actually existing things and conditions. From those sensations our mind goes to work putting pieces of a puzzle together.

  Rational thinking consists of verifying that we aren't putting pieces where they don't belong just because they ___can fit___without regard to the overall picture.

  What interfers with rational BIG PICTURE thinking is superstition, myth, religious assertions and fear.

  Science has come up with a method that works. When science tests things and verifies connections they fit one more piece of the puzzle into the BIG PICTURE.

  Unscrupulous writers like to appropriate scientific metaphors. Science actually talks in numbers (mathematics). When scientists try to communicate with the average layman they use metaphor and analogy.

  The layman and the unscrupulous writers confuse metaphor with reality.

  Ask somebody you know and trust to define as accurately as possible the following word:

  ENERGY

  What exactly IS energy. If they tell you it (energy) has the potential to do work....what actually have they said? A potential is not an actual. If energy exists; what is it ACTUALLY?

  You see, only mathematics can provide a definition of energy which makes any real sense. Resort to words only and you get conceptual blobs of nothingness pretending to mean something.

  Reality is real. It is tangible.

  What does NOT exist is our imaginary constructs of space and time and zero. But, they are useful imaginary constructs. You can't put them in a cigar box and store them on a shelf.
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  undercover

  However it made me think, we have been created at God's image.

  Interesting that you should mention that. Because as we talked about it, we talked about why these scientists felt the need to talk to the worlds religious leaders (if it did happen).

  Would this prove the existence of a higher power? Or prove the opposite? Why would religious leaders need to know and how would they spin it if this news somehow proved to be detrimental to their beliefs?

  I can't help but relate to science fiction movies (that's as much as my layman's brain can handle, I guess), but I was also reminded of the movie "Contact". The heroine of the movie found a higher life form. She couldn't prove it, but she knew it existed, much like the religious leaders couldn't prove the existence of God, but yet believed in him, so she came to understand how people can believe in something others see no evidence for.

  Will this new alleged finding present evidence of the possibility of a higher power, be it God or some other intelligent being?
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  metatron

  The problem with quantum physics is that science runs into a brickwall. If we think of science as a

  reductionist program, which reduces effects to causes, then this program may stop if you run into the

  bottom rung of reality. Even skeptics like Victor Stenger admit that what happens in the quantum world

  may be purely arbitrary, that it "just is".

  Your friend probably is a crackpot but then again, potential explanations for the quantum world can get

  pretty weird. See Amit Goswami or Fred Wolf about this stuff.

  I do know that emerging proof of quantum entanglement is pretty impressive in its implications.

  One physicist said it might be the greatest discovery of all time. Maybe that's what your friend

  was talking about.

  metatron
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  undercover

  Unscrupulous writers like to appropriate scientific metaphors. Science actually talks in numbers (mathematics). When scientists try to communicate with the average layman they use metaphor and analogy.

  The layman and the unscrupulous writers confuse metaphor with reality.

  So it's possible that the guy I know is kind of wrapped up in the writings of such individuals.

  I googled Immaneul Kant and I see a ton of stuff about him. I'll have to do some reading on him. I've seen the title of one of his works, "Critique of Pure Reason" mentioned in an article on quantum mechanics somewhere but I can't remember how it was referenced.
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  undercover

  Even skeptics like Victor Stenger admit that what happens in the quantum world

  may be purely arbitrary, that it "just is".

  I remember reading about some people saying that it "just is" but then others contend that it can't "just be". If mathmatics is a constant in figuring out how things work, then they contend that the mathmatics are there, just not figured out yet.

  I do know that emerging proof of quantum entanglement is pretty impressive in its implications.

  One physicist said it might be the greatest discovery of all time. Maybe that's what your friend

  was talking about.

  It may be. He's tried a couple of times telling me about this stuff. Usually, I don't have the time or the inclination to deal with his ramblings but the last time he brought it up, it was kind of interesting, so I listened and we discussed possible implications. Of course, all I could come up with was Star Trek and Matrix analogies.
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  jst2laws

  Hello Undercover,

  Don't jump out of any windows yet, man. While new problems are discovered daily in the world of quantum mechanics, the challenge to our perception of 'reality' began almost 100 years ago. No need to discuss this with the world's religionist because they have not been listening for the past century, except for a few like Unity and Unitarian Universalists.

  The only thing new that I'm aware of is the marriage of the new Cognitive Sciences with quantum physics. This new science is starting to poke a stick at the questions raised by the experimental observations of quantum mechanics.

  Bottom line is as Terry says, reality does exist. BUT, the confusing thing is, our reality is not made up of the same stuff that we seem to see. It is 'real' but made up of stuff we do not normally think of as composing reality. Yes, all matter is really just energy and rawest energy has no mass. In the right composition energy takes on characteristics we PERCEIVE as mass, and a lot of different compositions of energy gives us our physical reality as we perceive it.

  Terry,

  Reality is real. It is tangible.

  What does NOT exist is our imaginary constructs of space and time and zero. But, they are useful imaginary constructs. You can't put them in a cigar box and store them on a shelf.

  I agree. Our reality is real. I agree space and time are "imaginary constructs". Yet are physical reality is only perceived in the context of this imaginary space and time. Take space and time away and are reality goes away. How can you explain to the layman how our physical reality is "real" yet it is experienced only in the "imaginary constructs" of space and time. What you state above is what we have learned from 'relativity' and quantum physics. And these truths alone raise issues about the NATURE of our reality. Don't you agree? Steve