Abandon.....Yes I am happy....Thank You for letting me be happy...:))
Atheists, Why the Anger?
by XJW4EVR 147 Replies latest watchtower beliefs
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serotonin_wraith
I hope it's okay if I give my answers to these.
1-how does life evolve from lifeless matter? Please tell us.
Abiogenesis. Look it up.
2-how does it feel believing that a red corvette simply could arrive all on its own since universe, life and earth (all far more complex) all arrived on their own with no intelligence involved?Most of the universe is uninhabitable and violent, most of the earth is uninhabitable. The right sequence of events took place over billions of years so that life would evolve on one planet. If the odds against it happening were a billion to one, the universe is so big that there would still be a billion planets supporting life.
3- if its true that all these things just happened on their own, why cannot the same science and technology which sends folks to the moon, create ANY LIFE (even the simplest of living things) from non-living matter today? Or put life back where it ONCE WAS?
Probably for the same reason no human has visited Mars yet. Just cos we haven't done it YET, doesn't mean we never will.4-what about the universal fact of life PRINCIPLE that EVERY BEGINNING MUST HAVE A CAUSE CAUSE? What does THAT do for atheism?
What about the first law of thermodynamics that teaches that energy cannot be destroyed, only changed? On that basis, the universe has always existed. No need to make up a god and say that always existed. The problem is already solved.
5- what does it say to YOU when people such as Einstein, Copernicus, Sir Francis Bacon, Johannes Kepler, Galileo, Descartes, Newton, Boyle, Faraday, Mendel, Kelvin, Max Planck, and thousands of others scientists, philosophers, leaders such as Ghandi, MLK, every single President elected and many other successful people as well as BILLIONS of others believe in a Supreme Intelligent Designer and REJECT ATHEISM OUTRIGHT.Einstein wasn't a believer in God. And do you want us to list all the famous smart people who don't believe in God? It would make no difference, as your list makes no difference. Billions of people believed the earth was flat- didn't make it true.
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MadTiger
Einstein quotes. Read for yourself.
http://www.infidels.org/library/modern/mathew/arguments.html#einstein
http://skeptically.org/thinkersonreligion/id8.html -
LtCmd.Lore
5- Alan F, what does it say to YOU when people such as Einstein, Copernicus, Sir Francis Bacon, Johannes Kepler, Galileo, Descartes, Newton, Boyle, Faraday, Mendel, Kelvin, Max Planck, and thousands of others scientists, philosophers, leaders such as Ghandi, MLK, every single President elected and many other successful people as well as BILLIONS of others believe in a Supreme Intelligent Designer and REJECT ATHEISM OUTRIGHT.
It says that even smart people make mistakes... That's an apeal to authority that has no place in intelligent conversation... please don't force us to paste a list of brilliant atheistic/agnostic scientists. Because that wouldn't accomplish anything.
I'm quite certain that Einstein was agnostic, (which causes me to question the rest of your list... but it's not important anyways.)
What's important is not whether or not whether they believed in god, what's important is whether or not their reasons for believing in god are valid.
So you say Einstein believed in god? Well, that's fine. WHY did he beleive in god? (Note: I'm asking why HE believed in god... not why you do. If you don't know HIS personal reasons then the apeal to authority is 100% useless, and we are right back to YOUR beliefs.)
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done4good
I'm quite certain that Einstein was agnostic,
Einstein did not believe in a Judeo-Christian-Islamic, (or any other specific), god. He was deist that had a particular take on what he perceived as a "greater power" that put the laws of physics into motion. His reasearch has been elaborated upon to present day, in such a way, to bring disagreement to his argument. He would probably not be a deist based on today's understanding of quantum mechanics, and other physical studies.
j
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LtCmd.Lore
I already answered an extremely similar list HERE and he still hasn't gotten back to me on it...
Oh, thanks done4
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Vinny
Lore said:..."I already answered an extremely similar list HERE and he still hasn't gotten back to me on it"
: )
8 PAGES? You are so full of bologna. Can I Call you Oscar Mayar for now on? You are full of it today Lore. Eight pages of vinny TROUNCING silly atheism's all things from nothing lame replies.Let's look and SEE.
Tell me this, if you can buy into such laughable explanation as this, then you are STUCK with red corvette in your lap once again. And, if you can buy into such laughable explanation as this, then why can't a Powerful, Intellectual Creator be on your list of possibilities? Please answer that. Why be so adamant against creationism, when the alternative is just plain impossible?
Is THAT what you call 8 pages of explaining how life origiates from non-life??
"NOW DEAL WITH IT ATHEISTS!
This is why you athesists are STUCK with red corvette on your foreheads for life. It applies, it fits, it works. For those of you that want to try wiggling off the hook because red vette aint living, breathing, self-replicating life form, you are then BURIED by the fact that neither is the earth, moon, sun, and stars or universe living, breathing, self-replicating life forms. Neither is atmosphere, water cycles, photosynthesis, weather systems etc living breathing self-replicating life forms. But I already addressed that in the other thread. I am only repeating myself here AGAIN. This is why Almost Atheist failed in presenting the argument correctly. Is why atheists arguments above have no legs at all."
***** You see folks, this is what Lore calls dealing with these issues, answering these questions. I call it ATHEISTS getting TROUNCED AND BURIED so many times that back hoes can't find atheists.
Well Lore, if universe never had a beginning, then your God must have a beginning goes OUT THE WINDOW. So which is it? And how can something so precise and structured as the universe get there, just like it is today, where science can tell you exactly which stars, moons, planets etc will be where in 100 years? Without any guiding hand of intellect? All by mere chances? The earth with all beautifully balanced SYSTEMS, all by lot's of dice rolling and luck??
1: big bang explodes, spewing clouds of debris.
2: over a long period of time thicker parts of this cloud are drawn together by gravity and form spheres, stars, black holes, planets, asteriods etc.
3: Tada, you have a universe with over 70 sextillion stars. That's 70 sextillion solar systems which can contain multiple planets. (Note, this does not produce an orderly universe, it produces one in which planets, stars and even entire galaxies slam into each other. If you happen to observe an orderly universe please let me know.)
4: At least one of those 70,000,000,000,000,000,000,000 stars has a planet orbiting it that is capable of supporting some form of life. And that spins... lots of planets spin so I'm not sure why you mentioned that, but whatever. At least you didn't mention gravity as a qualifier this time.
5: That planet has an atmosphere but it's drastically different than the one we have now, after plants evolve and can produce oxygen, you have a different atmosphere.
6: Ozone forms naturally from water molocules seperating due to the ultraviolet radiation from the nearby star."
If through some cosmic "BIG BANG", ALL of the billions of stars in our own organized, orderly Milky Way Galaxy, as well as the BILLIONS of other organized and orderly Galaxies with their billions of stars came into existence. And if inside our very own organized and orderly galaxy, in what is known as our own orderly SOLAR SYSTEM, we have at just the right distance from our perfectly sized SUN, a perfectly located and sized planet EARTH, that also rotates at the perfect speed of 24 hours (needed to sustain life) as well as orbits around the sun at the perfect speed of 66,600 mph to keep it in that precise orbiting pattern and not sucked into the gravitational pull of the sun itself. And if this perfectly located, spinning and orbiting EARTH also has perfectly, purposeful and finely balanced SYSTEMS upon it (NEEDED TO SUSTAIN LIFE) such as different atmospheric layers, with protective ozone layer, with just the correct amount of gases needed to sustain life. (.Oxygen, Nitrogen, CO2, argon, water vapor and other smaller trace gasses).
And if UPON this perfectly located, spinning EARTH, with it's many perfectly balanced features and systems (found in the middle of an organized orderly universe), there also happens to be a variety of LIVING THINGS on this earth, with ITS OWN amazingly complex varieties of different systems such as digestive, circulatory, reproductive, elimination, immune, neurological etc etc, that just happened to originate from NOTHING AT ALL, through some BIG BANG, into an organized gargantuan UNIVERSE, with a perfectly located, spinning, orbiting EARTH located within that universe, that just so happened to come WITH the many FEATURES needed to support life, along with all these many varieties OF LIFE FORMS that supposedly arose from lifeless matter, primordial soup, to polymers, into complex living things including human BRAINS and beyond; then FOLKS if all this happened, ***ALL ON ITS VERY OWN***, without any INTELLECTUAL SOURCE anywhere, then THAT RED CORVETTE showing up in the wilderness with gas, keys and everything in place is a PIECE OF CAKE. That Red Vette, all on it's own, is easy as counting 1,2,3 when compared to all THESE OTHER things arising from and existing because of a series of what can only be described as FAT-CHANCES, ALL ON THEIR VERY OWN.
NOW DEAL WITH IT ATHEISTS!
Is also why so few humans ever buy into it. -
Vinny
Now Lore, I have answered all of your questions and silly manifestos on many threads. Just read the above, if you might forget.
Piece by piece they have ben picked apart and you and atheists have been buried so far that back hoes and shovels have no chance of finding you.
Maybe earthquakes can unearth you sometime in the future. But otherwise, aside from major earthquakes, you are so buried no hope for you being found. Atheists beliefs that all things from nothing by blind chances and lots o luck is really that bad.
The prophecy thing is the easist of all. I have just been busy with other replies. You have received more than your fair share by the way. But I like burying you for some reason more than most others. I think you have some spunk.
You have thick skin too. I never see you cry and run. You always get trounced and just want more. I can admire that. Many atheists get trounced, call names, other bad words and then run home.
You never do that.
I give you a tip of the hat for taking your trouncings like a man.
I will definietely do the prophecy thing with you, one at a time like you asked. I will even try to be super nice along the way. Because I have done this atheist thing many times, always with teh same results (bad news for atheists) I want to start "prophecies" on a new thread. But I want to keep it to just that, bible prophecy and not more atheists getting trounced. This way, I will not get sidetracked by having to get the paddle out so many times to spank atheists beliefs so many times.
We can really look at prophecies and fulfillments this way with less distractions.
A couple more comments and I will wrap up the atheists today and start a new thread for prophecies this week.
But I wll also take my time with the new one. No need to do this every day, all day. Many other things get left behind whenever I have my firld days with atheists.
Perry can have atheists this week.
He likes having fun with atheists too...
Talk soon.
Aloha,
Vinny -
LtCmd.Lore
I don't think it's even neccesary to respond to this one, you are obviosly grasping at straws here vinny. I think you even added 75% more insults just to make your post longer.
This is why you athesists are STUCK with red corvette on your foreheads for life. It applies, it fits, it works.
Oh, well if you say so it must be true.
For those of you that want to try wiggling off the hook because red vette aint living, breathing, self-replicating life form, you are then BURIED by the fact that neither is the earth, moon, sun, and stars or universe living, breathing, self-replicating life forms.
No they aren't alive, but then again, they are no where NEAR as complex as a car. The moon is just a rock with craters. The sun is just a big burning ball of gas, less complicated then a match, and just big. The sun IS a star, so the same answer applies to them. Planets are formed in the same way, just with different materials in the original cloud.
And I already explained the exremely simple way they are formed. Big Cloud of matter + gravity = star or planet or asteriod or black hole, depending on the material and density of the cloud. That's just how it is, there's nothing random about that exept the materials in the cloud.
If you think that they are as complicated as a car then you are sadly mistaken. This is 5th grade science, we all know how stars and planets form, and they don't require a god.
Neither is atmosphere, water cycles, photosynthesis, weather systems etc living breathing self-replicating life forms.
Atmosphere, I already explained the atmosphere.
Water cycles... that's just the natural way H2O reacts to radiation from the sun...
Photosynthesis. ? Vinney, photosynthesis only uccurs in plants. And plants ARE living things.
Weather systems. Oh, boy, please tell me you already know what causes weather otherwise this will take forever. Let me be brief: The sun/nearby star heats up the air and water and land, the hot air rises causing the cold air to move in and take it's place. BAM you have wind. It can't be any other way, that's just how it is. Any planet with an atmosphere, water and a sun will have weather... (acctually the water isn't even neccassary for winds.)
Are you aware that there are weather systems on Mars? Weather systems MUST exist in a world with an atmosphere and a nearby star.
It applies, it fits, it works. For those of you that want to try wiggling off the hook because red vette aint living, breathing, self-replicating life form, you are then BURIED by the fact that ... neither is atmosphere, water cycles, photosynthesis, weather systems etc living breathing self-replicating life forms.
Living, breathing, self replicating life forms... ARE LIFE FORMS! What the heck was that supposed to mean? "Sure the corvette isn't a life form... but neither are life forms!"... ?
Poor Lore, he always comes back for more losing. Lore, nobody has ever dealt with Red Vette, anywhere, at anytime.
This is the fifth stinking time that I personally have... there's a whole thread about it too... in fact I just touched on it again that right above this quote.
But one thing's for sure, you still haven't dealt with that flying purple monkey. (Or fairy circles.)
Is this a joke? No reply AT ALL. Just a link to a site called, "The Evil Bible"
Dude, it's the internet, you're supposed to CLICK ON the link, and more information pops up.
Here it is again: http://www.evilbible.com/Synthetic_Life.htm
It's neccassary that you read it, because it refutes your claim that scientists have never created a life form.
WE are talking about a CONTROLLED ENVIRONMENT HERE LORE. People go to the moon today. Technology is in abundance today. So why put all of your hope into some hypothesis that has never been duplicated anywhere?
Yes, and since then I came accross the information in that site. Turns out they CAN create life forms.
Additionally, with all the parts sitting in front of them, with a drowned little kid, they have never been able to give life BACK even though every part needed FOR LIFE is right there in their controlled scientific setting.
Like I said: That would require reactivating every single cell in the body. There are over 210 different KINDS of cells in a human... there are aproximately 65 trillion cells in a human... By the time they reactivated two cells the first one would have died again. What the heck are you thinking Vinny?
"We can go to the moon, so why can't we suspend time, tear apart a human into trillions of pieces reactivate each individual cell, put him back together again exactly the way he was and bring him back to life? HUH? HUH? Answer THAT atheists!"
This is flat out STUPID, IGNORANT, LAUGHABLY LAME, EMBARRASSINGLY FOOLISH IDIOCRACY AT ITS VERY WORST.
As I said, you increased the insults to make up for lack of content.
Now Lore wants to say science is WRONG.
Pardon? Most scientists believe that the universe always existed in some form or another. (There's currently a theory, where the big bang creates the universe, then it slowly collapses in on itself by its own gravity and starts all over again.)
How is that saying science is wrong?
Well Lore, if universe never had a beginning, then your God must have a beginning goes OUT THE WINDOW. So which is it?
If the universe never had a beginning then there is no need for god. Saying 'your god must have a beginning' is simply a reply to theists unsupported assertion that everything has a beginning.
The universe and god are both subject to logic, so if logic dictates that everything has a beginning then that applies to both. If it's possible for one thing to exist without a beginning then it's possible for another.
I personally think the matter/energy that makes up the universe always existed.
It's a lot more logical to believe that a simple mass of matter and energy always existed, then it is to believe that a super complex, infinitely powerfull, intelligent life form that doesn't even have physical form always existed.
Think about this: You think DNA is to complex to exist by chance? Well your god, which also exists purely by chance, has all the infomation in all DNA stored in his memory, plus every other fact ever... which is more complex?
And how can something so precise and structured as the universe get there, just like it is today,
I refuse to do the whole: Gravity plus cloud = universe thing again. If you didn't learn that in school, and you didn't understand the dummified version I told you. Then this is a waste of time.
"Just like it is today" is an interesting qualifier... Why does it have to exist like it is today?
Why can't it be ONE huge star and ONE huge earth like planet? Or only stars and no planets? Or atmosphere ALL THROUGH the universe, and no planet? There are endless possibilities for different kinds of universes... even a bunch of different ones that support life.
And how can something so precise and structured as the universe get there, just like it is today,
ARGH! The universe is NOT precise or orderly. If you were to somehow rearrange the whole universe in a completely random fashion. Some stars and planets would slam into each other, some would hurdle off all alone into nothingness, and then after the initial chaos is over, whatever is left of the universe would eventually get back to roughly the way it is. Stars would eventually capture planets in their gravity, and black holes would eventually capture those stars in their gravity and you'd have galaxies.
But there's nothing orderly about it now anyways. Planets are slamming into each other as we speak, so are stars, and galaxies, and black holes. If you think the universe is orderly then you need to study astronomy a bit more.
where science can tell you exactly which stars, moons, planets etc will be where in 100 years?
That's testament to scientists, not the universe. They can predict where planets and stars will be in the future because gravity is consistant. Also, objects in motion tend to stay in motion.
Stars don't hurdle off in one direction and then suddenly stop, turn around and go the other way. They continue on the path they were headed unless effected by gravity. It's not organization when a billiards ball DOESN'T suddenly change direction. I'm really not sure what you're getting at with this.
NO EXPLOSION ANYWHERE RESULTS IN PRECISION AND ORDER SO SPECIFIC MEN CAN PINPOINT EXACT LOCATIONS WITH COMPLETE CONFIDENCE AND ACCURACY. NOWHERE, NEVER, IMPOSSIBLE.
What?! No response to what I said, just the statement that nobody can pinpoint exact locations of explosions?
Whatever that means, there doesn't have to be an observer for gravity to work... if all humans died suddenly. (Let's say our solar system slammes into another.) Gravity would still cause clouds in space to form stars. It already IS doing that.
in the simplest of terms for Lore and all atheists: (Followed by three paragraphs of explaining that the universe is big)
Sorry, but my 6 point explaination was much simpler.
You seem to think that the earth must be EXACTLY THE WAY IT IS to support life... and that's simply not true.
The earth isn't perfectly adapted to life, life adapted to the earth.
This is like the puddle waking up one day and being amazed at how well the whole it's in fits: "Wow, look at this hole! It fits me perfectly! I mean really precise isn't it? It must have been made for me."
Life is like a puddle... sort of... because it adapts to it's environment.
Like I said earlier... life could probably exist on a massive planet alone in the universe with ONE massive star. It would be tottally different from life now, but life could exist.
The atmosphere doesn't HAVE to contain: Oxygen, Nitrogen, CO2, argon, water vapor and other smaller trace gasses. It could be a variation of that combination, or completely different gasses all together. (That would meen that life AS WE KNOW IT would not exist, but a different form of life could.)
But the most important fact, is that this type of thing DOES develop naturally.
We live in a universe where planets with atmospheres develop in natual ways.
The natural formation of a planet, even one with an atmosphere that can support life, is no where near as bizzare and unnatural as the spontanious developement of a car.
Planets ARE forming (and getting fried) as we speak... er, as we type and read.
I will definietely do the prophecy thing with you, one at a time like you asked. I will even try to be super nice along the way. Because I have done this atheist thing many times, always with teh same results (bad news for atheists) I want to start "prophecies" on a new thread. But I want to keep it to just that, bible prophecy and not more atheists getting trounced. This way, I will not get sidetracked by having to get the paddle out so many times to spank atheists beliefs so many times.
Cool, I'm looking forward too it.
Just FYI I never hold grudges. For me, a debate is just a debate.
I agree with the taking our time thing too. This Wednesday I have to finish my senior project. And I'll be working on that for the next three days. So I'll be severely limiting the time I spend here.
Lore
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What-A-Coincidence
Guys...FREE YOUR MIND!!!