Atheists, Why the Anger?

by XJW4EVR 147 Replies latest watchtower beliefs

  • XJW4EVR
    XJW4EVR

    Wow, this has been a very positive thread (maybe beacuse the flamers seem to have ignored this one). A great exchange of ideas, and I am grateful for the responses. There have been so many that I don't know which ones to respond to, lol!

    Let me start with Gregor, since he directed some positive criticisms at me, and I wish to shed some additional light on my original post that are not clear.

    Yes, I became a member of a Pentecostal church, in fact I am still a member of that particular church. I also teach a Bible study and have taught on the J-Dubs there. So, yes, I am a believer. That being said, there was a time when I did not adhere to any faith, in fact I had no desire to darken the door of a kingdom hall, church, synagoge or temple. I had a similar attitude that many of you, that are non-believers, exhibit. So I understand many of the statements you make.

    I also see that your criticisms are correct, Gregor. I made a poor choice of words. If I have offended any, I appologize. That being said, the terms I used were not mine. I read those from another sight, and I was immediately reminded of the attitude of many posters on this board. The general gist of the original post was still in the forefront of my mind, and it got transferred here.

    I also realize that the anonymous nature of the internet, allows for a lower degree of politeness. I think many of us (and I acknowedge that I do this myself) say things in a manner that we would not say in person. That being said, I agree, that perhaps my premise is overstated, Gregor.

    This has been a great thread, and I hope it continues.

  • stevenyc
    stevenyc

    Perry, also if you could answer this question for me as well as my previous one:

    You do agree that the God began right?


    steve

  • Perry
    Perry

    Lola,

    Let's look a little closer at your thinking shall we?

    Your statement:

    it would be nice to be able to say "no I don't believe in god" without having someone tell me that you I'm a fool.

    My statement:

    Hey Lola please show everyone here where someone called you a fool in response to your assertion that you do not believe in God?

    No one on this thread Perry, but if you read the other one Mouthy did so,

    You failed to provide an example of this, because it isn't true. Mouthy quoted a scripture that is a statement of FACT, and NOT TO YOU. This is proven because I stated a fool's challenge here (of the same truth) to any atheist to provide proof that God doesn't exist. No one took the bait because they all knew that it is impossible. So you deceive yourself into thinking that she was talking about you. Because you posit the constuct 'there is no God' within yourself on the one hand, even though you know it's a fool's challenge to prove such, you must then search for justification. This dissonance then paves the way for you to feign personal hurt for the purpose of feeling sorry for yourself and also to provide a basis for you to attack believers. ATHEISM REQUIRES DECEPTION.

    Atheism requires you to think

    I think that I have disproven this above.

    and not believe everything you’re told.

    With the exceptions of your own self-deceptions.

    What upsets me is that many view atheists as immoral people and that's just not true. I don't have to believe in god in order to be a good person,

    Have you ever told a lie? Have you ever stolen anything.... no matter how small. Have you ever judged anyone for victimizing you by way of the same crimes that you are guilty of? You are not good.

    I'm fully aware of my short comings,

    No you are not.

    what more can you ask for?

    Any reasonable standard of justice requires you to judge others as you judge yourself. So, either you are not just, or you are a hypocrit for judging others while pardoning yourself of the same crimes.

    So if there is a god I think he will be aware of the fact that I am a good person

    He is aware of your nature and will rightly judge you as you have judged others. What other just standard could there be?

    That's the difference between you and I, you need a book to tell you how to behave and to tell you what's wrong and right, I don't.

    I don't need a book Lola. I need a Savior to step in and pay my sin debt and let me off the hook for my crimes. Likewise, you cannot do that which you profess and know to be right regardless of what you do, think, imagine or otherwise. You must be born again.

  • Perry
    Perry

    seretonin wrote:

    Atheism is the default position from birth. You need to be TAUGHT religion.

    FALSE. There has never been a society on this planet without some form of religion. Check with the sociologists....You are terrible wrong in your statement.

    check out Matthew 5:22. '...But anyone who says, 'You fool!' will be in danger of the fire of hell.'

    Wrong interpretation. God is not 'anyone".... and he wrote both statements. It is his truth not anyone else's. Additionally, the term "fool" here connotates contempt, not logic if I remember correctly.

  • Perry
    Perry

    Steve,

    I gotta go eat with wife and kids. I'll try to answer your questions later tonight.

    Ciao

  • lola28
    lola28
    need a Savior to step in and pay my sin debt and let me off the hook for my crimes.

    I don't. I don't care if he forgives me, because I have no respect for your god, none. If I give him credit for the beauty I see around me I must also give him credit for all the pain and suffering I see, I chose not to believe that there is a creator who has the power to put an end to pain and suffering yet chooses to do nothing. It overwhelms me to even think that god who is supposed to be loving and wise and who can put an end to suffering chooses instead to sit on his ass and do nothing. Instead I have chosen to believe that there is no god, and that's what helps me get up in the morning. If believing in him is what gets you to function and what makes you feel better, I can't fault you for it. You have every right to believe in god and I have every right to believe that he is not there and if he is he is as incompetent as the Bush administration.

    You must be born again.

    Thanks but I'm fine as is.

    Lola

  • LtCmd.Lore
    LtCmd.Lore
    There has never been a society on this planet without some form of religion.

    Heh heh. Would you care to prove that assertion?

    All I need is a list of every civilization that ever existed and their religion.

  • LtCmd.Lore
    LtCmd.Lore
    Have you ever told a lie? Have you ever stolen anything.... no matter how small. Have you ever judged anyone for victimizing you by way of the same crimes that you are guilty of? You are not good.

    OK, now THAT's offensive.

    By your own standards you are not a good person either, you simply delude yourself into thinking it's okay because of Jesus.

    What's worse, commiting a crime and regretting it like me and Lola? Or commiting a crime but claiming that you're "off the hook" as you say?

  • serotonin_wraith
    serotonin_wraith

    Perry wrote: There has never been a society on this planet without some form of religion. Check with the sociologists....You are terrible wrong in your statement.

    Humans have been curious about many things in the universe, and so we made up gods to answer what we couldn't. What causes that loud flashing in the sky? Oh it must be Thor! Why did the tsunami hit? Must have been Poseidon! But science answered these questions and there was no further need to believe in those gods. To stop a child making up a god, we may need to supplement their curiosity with real scientific evidence, and that's what happens in schools.

    A child with no knowledge either way would be a deist at best- there is no way they would know about specific details like God's name (whether it be Yahweh or Allah, etc), an invisible force called a holy spirit or a talking snake. These things they need to be taught.

    About the fool scripture, I mentioned it incase anyone was personally calling someone else a fool. Showing that God considers them foolish is a roundabout way of doing that, in my opinion. It makes no difference if it's about contempt or logic, just saying 'You fool!' is bad enough, apparently.

  • Leolaia
    Leolaia
    All I need is a list of every civilization that ever existed and their religion.

    Lt.Cmd.Lore...To try and prove a negative is a fool's game... kinda like a double sided coin.

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