Glaring contradiction between 1995 new light and Society's authority as FDS

by yaddayadda 40 Replies latest watchtower beliefs

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  WTWizard

  Or is this just one more thing the Watchtower Society is using to confuse the flock so that they will feel helpless aside the Society? I think so. They have enough other tricks: the Urim and the Thummin, the deals between God and each of His Bible servants, the multiple classes that mean almost the same thing and virtually everyone in one class is in all of them, and so on. My guess is that they just want to confuse people so they will be afraid to look outside the box for the true answer.

  As I see it, Jesus still hasn't come at all. The year 1914 was just as important as 2007--no more and no less. They failed to mention 1860, when the Civil War was started. They didn't mention 1941 when Pearl Harbor was attacked. They didn't mention 2001 when the World Trade Center was hit by the planes. They didn't mention any period around or leading out of the Dark Ages. And 1914 is getting out of date, so they need anything to further confuse the flock into disregarding that blunder. Anything to keep the scam going longer.
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  Pahpa

  One has to wonder if this won't lead up eventually to a major change in the whole dating system of the Watchtower. As noted, the date of 1914, although important historically, doesn't seem to be as important prophetically. And the interpretation has shifted over the years. To Russell and early Bible Students it was to be the "end." But to Rutherford and JWs it suddenly became "the beginning of the end." Now we see the shifting of the interpretation of the events described by Jesus. The "generation" is no longer people of the 1914 generation. The separation of the "sheep and goats" is now a future event even as is the coming of Jesus with the angels to rule.

  Time has been the dilemma of the Watchtower Society. Nothing it has predicted has come true. So, it is struggling to come up with alternate ideas that can explain away its own failures.
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  glenster

  If I read this right, I'm getting a deja vu here:

  1925 The JWs leaders' book "Jehovah's Witnesses-—Proclaimers of God's King-
  dom," 1993, pp.138,139, gives "The Watchtower" of March 1, 1925 as teaching that
  Jesus was enthroned as king in heaven in 1914.
  http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Eschatology_of_Jehovah%27s_Witnesses#_note-16

  1929 1874 was still taught as when Jesus invisibly returned: "The Scriptural
  proof is that the second presence of the Lord Jesus Christ began in 1874 AD."
  ("Prophecy," 1929, pp.65-66) Combined with the idea given at the listing for
  1925, Rutherford taught that Jesus invisibly returned in 1874 but didn't become
  enthroned in heaven till 1914.

  Christ's Second Advent was explained as a "turning of attention" to the earth
  from heaven. ("Presence-—Literal or Symbolic?" in "A People For His Name: A His-
  tory of Jehovah's Witnesses and an Evaluation," by Timothy White, pp. 223-224)

  (I don't know. That must have been slippery to inspire confidence in: in
  1874, Jesus began invisibly browsing from heaven?)

  1930 Rutherford bumped the invisible Jesus up from 1874 to 1914 (minus pyra-
  mid connotations) in 1930. "Jesus has been present since 1914." ("The Golden
  Age," 1930)
  http://www.watchtowerinformationservice.org/index.php/dates/boastful-lies/

  The JWs leaders teach that Matthew 24:45-47 indicates that Jesus picked the
  Watchtower leaders as his religious leaders on Earth in 1919. Yet he hasn't
  fulfilled Matt.25:31 and taken the throne yet (?). His "presence" is so invis-
  ible it isn't here at all--he'll arrive later. As with Rutherford in 1929, it's
  taught that Jesus began invisibly browsing from heaven, except this time start-
  ing in 1914 and picking the JWs leaders as God's channel on Earth before he got
  to the throne, which will happen later (?).

  My guess is that they call it "turning attention toward the Earth" in 1914, but I'm not sure what they call choosing the JWs leaders in 1919 if you're supposed to associate sitting on the throne with making a rule and he hasn't sat in it yet.
• 

  SirNose586

  One has to wonder if this won't lead up eventually to a major change in the whole dating system of the Watchtower. As noted, the date of 1914, although important historically, doesn't seem to be as important prophetically. And the interpretation has shifted over the years. To Russell and early Bible Students it was to be the "end." But to Rutherford and JWs it suddenly became "the beginning of the end." Now we see the shifting of the interpretation of the events described by Jesus. The "generation" is no longer people of the 1914 generation. The separation of the "sheep and goats" is now a future event even as is the coming of Jesus with the angels to rule.

  Time has been the dilemma of the Watchtower Society. Nothing it has predicted has come true. So, it is struggling to come up with alternate ideas that can explain away its own failures.

  Yes, they most certainly are having trouble. They've got a king who had a "presence" but has yet to "arrive." He is king with a throne, but he hasn't "sat down" in judgment on it. Yet, this king will also "stand up" for his people in the end as an archangel.

  Standing, sitting, coming (seven total times, according to Losch!), arriving, being present...boy, if only they could get it right!
• 

  bob1999

  So, just to sum this up.
  
  According to the WTS writings, Christ has not taken His throne to separate the goat from the sheep. That will happen in the future.
  
  If Christ has not taken His throne yet, He can't have thrown Satan out of heaven to cause the trouble here on earth and he can't have chosen his FDS. Not until He takes His throne.
  
  So will they "clear" this up with more "new light"? Or do they need to? Are the dubs to dumb (numb) to notice?
• 

  moshe

  The important thing in JW's mind is to follow their WT leaders who are wandering in the spiritual desert for as long as it takes to get to the new system of things. The Israelites followed Moses for an entire generation and the JW's just have to prove to Jehovah that they are made of better stuff. They will follow their deceptive leaders in whatever direction they lead them and for as long as it takes to get to paradise.- Even in circles, as this thread plainly shows us.
• 

  Sarah Smiles

  Did they not gain this concept from Russell? Did he say 1914 or is that when the Gentile Times ended and Jesus was enthroned in 1915.

  It is kind of funny WTS claims that Jesus came to Bethel to get rid of pyramidology the food from demons.

  I thought that would be the faith slave meat at due season? All JW should read the books dealing with meat at due season.

  I thought that the 144,000 were sealed 1914 to 1930 or 35? when Rutherford realized their were too many people partaking.
• 

  yaddayadda

  Apocalypse said: "Yet, when you carefully examine the verse, right from the NWT reference edition, there is an asterisk on the word "arriving*" which takes you to the bottom of the page. The reference says "46* Lit., "having come." Gr., el-thon'. In other words, the Literal translation from the Greek is "having come" which puts the fulfilment of verse 46 squarely in the future."
  
  Very interesting! However, ‘having come’ indicates a past tense, so technically it could still apply to a past event, such as 1914. My NIV version says ‘..when he returns’ rather than ‘arrives’. I wonder how this Greek word 'el-thon' is used in other scriptures? What do authorities say about it?
  
  Nevertheless, ‘having come’ in Matt 24:46 must surely mean that Jesus does not appoint the faith and discreet slave(s) until his second COMING, which the WTS says did NOT occur in 1914 (as Apocalypse implied! The Watchtower Society insists that even though Jesus has been ‘present’ since 1914 his 'coming' is still in the future. And that despite all that Jesus still 'arrived' in 1914 and appointed them as his 'faithful and discreet slave' class in 1919! Go figure!!!
  
  Furthermore, if Jesus did not sit on any 'judgment' throne in 1914 then what on earth was he doing when he chose the Watchtower Society ahead of all other Christians? If that isn't judging then what is?
  
  As for Jesus being 'present' since 1914 only through having 'turned his attention' to the earth, where does Matthew 28: 20 fit in? According to that scripture Jesus has 'been with' (ie, had his 'attention' on) his true followers on earth for the last two thousands years!
  
  The Society's inconsistent treatment of 'coming' and 'arriving' in Matthew 24 and 25 is capricious and thoroughly unscholarly. It is just layers upon layers of twisting and contradictions that do all sorts of abuse to Jesus words. So much for letting the bible interpret itself.
  
  It is almost impossible to believe that at least some of the GB did not notice all these contradictions when they considered this 'new light' in 1995. Some of them, perhaps all of them, must surely know that these interpretations are a nonsense. This is what puzzles me about why they bothered to bring in this new light at all. What was the point? All it did was make their 1914-19 teaching look even more ridiculous than it already was.
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  yaddayadda

  {deleted - double post}
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  yaddayadda

  Here is a quote from a 1989 Watchtower that clearly states Jesus came to do a judgement in 1918. In 1995 the Society revealed 'new light' that the throne in Matthew 25: 31 is a judgment throne (only) but Jesus has not yet sat on it (to separate the sheep from the goats). Yet the Society would have us believe that in 1914 Jesus was 'enthroned' as King and in 1918 judged his earthly spiritual temple in order to refine it (Malachi 3:1)! Judgment starts with the house of God (1 Pet 4:17) and the Society say that very judgment happened in 1918. (It would be interesting to see if there are any post-1995 quotes where they repeat the claim that Jesus judged his people in 1919):
  
  *** w89 4/15 7 The Infamous Harlot-Her Fall ***
  
  9 As we have just noted, Jehovah’s people entered a period of severe testing in 1918. The prophet’s further words at Malachi 3:1-3 explain what was happening: “And suddenly there will come to His temple the true Lord [Jehovah], whom you people are seeking, and the messenger of the [Abrahamic] covenant”—Jesus. Yes, Jehovah came with his Christ for judgment. Jehovah then asks: “Who will be putting up with the day of his coming, and who will be the one standing when he appears? For he will be like the fire of a refiner and like the lye of laundrymen.” According to 1 Peter 4:17, judgment would start with those professing to be of “the house of God.” Thus, true Christians were refined and cleansed for Jehovah’s service.