Isaiah book and the 70 years for Tyre, wtf???

by drew sagan 10 Replies latest watchtower bible

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  drew sagan

  I guess I'm a pretty slow to catching on to things because I have just noticed some discussion about this paragraph in the WT's 'Isaiah' book.

  ***ip-1chap.19p.253JehovahProfanesthePrideofTyre***

  "SheMustReturntoHerHire"

  21

  Isaiah goes on to prophesy: "It must occur in that day that Tyre must be forgotten seventy years, the same as the days of one king." (Isaiah23:15a) Following the destruction of the mainland city by the Babylonians, the island-city of Tyre will "be forgotten." True to the prophecy, for the duration of "one king"—the Babylonian Empire—the island-city of Tyre will not be an important financial power. Jehovah, through Jeremiah, includes Tyre among the nations that will be singled out to drink the wine of His rage. He says: "These nations will have to serve the king of Babylon seventy years." (Jeremiah 25:8-17, 22, 27) True, the island-city of Tyre is not subject to Babylon for a full 70 years, since the Babylonian Empire falls in 539 B.C.E. Evidently, the 70 years represents the period of Babylonia’s greatest domination—when the Babylonian royal dynasty boasts of having lifted its throne even above "the stars of God." (Isaiah 14:13) Different nations come under that domination at different times. But at the end of 70 years, that domination will crumble. What will then happen to Tyre?

  In this one paragraph they admit that Jeremiah 25 is talking about babylonian supremacy, that the 70 years doesn't have to be exact, and that 539 is the date when it ends. How in the heck can this be held while at the same time they keep the idea of 537 and the exile?
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  Narkissos

  Major inconsistency indeed. I found about it here because the book was published long after I left. Makes one wonder if they were not looking for a way out of the 607 nonsense back in 2000.
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  AnnOMaly

  I remember doing a double take when we went through the study in Spring '02. This was just at the time when I was being to stir from my spiritual coma. It is a significant statement, but a JW will just point to 2 Chron. 36:21 and Dan. 9:2 as 'proof' that the 70 years are associated with the period of Jerusalem's complete desolation and the land's rest.
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  drew sagan

  It is a significant statement, but a JW will just point to 2 Chron. 36:21 and Dan. 9:2 as 'proof' that the 70 years are associated with the period of Jerusalem's complete desolation and the land's rest.

  IMO it would depend upon the JW you are talking too. You can never change a persons mind, only give them something to think about so that they can change it themselves.
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  AnnOMaly

  Very true, drew.
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  slimboyfat

  This is indeed one of the most shocking inconsistencies I have read in the Witness literature. It makes an absolute mockery of apostates and apologists who argue back and forth ad nauseam on whether there is empirical evidence for 607 BCE when the Watchtower author has in one stroke undermined the whole basis (70 literal years exile) for the whole system.

  After that one passage in the Isaiah book you might as well throw Furuli's book and the Insight entry on chronology in the bin, and Jonsson's book too for that matter. The extended refutation is simply no longer necessary. Just point any enquiring Witness to the paragraph in the Isaiah book and ask why if one period of 70 years is deemed metaphorical, then why not the other one? End of story. Save you breath, save the ink, save the cyberspace. We are flogging a dead horse here.

  When this came out I remember even a very loyal Witness on a pro-JW site being very shaken by it.

  Slim
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  drew sagan

  Dead straight slimboyfat!
  
  I personally plan on using the 'read the paragraph, then answer the question' routine. Get them to agree with the Isaiah book, then show them how what it says is totally out of step with everything they teach.
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  AlanF

  The problem in dealing with JWs is that they will refuse to acknowledge contradictions in their own literature. One way or another they'll rationalize the contradictions such that they claim that none exist. How do you deal with such braindead people?

  AlanF
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  drew sagan

  How do you deal with such braindead people?

  They are not all braindead, in fact I would argue that the vast majority of them are actually aware of many differant things that seem to cause question. Many have an intelligent mind and use it every day. The problem is they actually think they are using it when they come to the conclusions the WTS lays out for them.
  
  As I stated above there is no way that every person is going to react the same way to the same information. Each person is at a different point in their life, and that effects how they look at things. That is how it was for me, as well as my wife.
  
  Of course there never is a way to get through to a person, lets say scholar ;) or many of the JW apologists. But folks who are at that point to finally open up can wake up out of it. This message board is proof that thousands who once where stubborn with regards to WTS theology will eventually give it up.
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  stevenyc

  Hey, where thirdwitlness when you need him !!!
  
  
  steve