Scientific proofs of God

by MegaDude 22 Replies latest jw friends

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  kid-A

  My personal feeling ( which don't mean squat) is that anything material must come from a source.

  OK, how do you define "material"? Does the source also have to be material? In this case, god would also have to be "material", which would completely contradict all religious concepts of a "spirit" being, with no end and no beginning. In any case, astrophysicists already have a very good understanding of what the basic building blocks of the universe would be, at the sub-atomic level.

  "To say the universe has always existed with all it's material matter and having absolutely NOTHING before it is proposterous."

  How is this any less preposterous than claiming some god-creature (for whose existence there is zero evidence) has simply always existed, and one day decided to "create" a universe, complete with a tiny little blue-green planet inhabited by organic, biological lifeforms? You basically have 2 choices here. 1) Either some "god" has always existed (because you are led down a road of infinite regression if you posit a "creator" for the "creator"; or 2) The necessary pre-requisites for a big bang event have always existed (e.g. subatomic particles within an infinite space). Now, given these options, we KNOW that sub-atomic particles exist. We can measure, and even observe their activity under the right conditions (e.g. heavy water neutrino refraction experiments). On the other hand we have no evidence for the existence of any god, beyond the wishful thinking of our emotions and fear of biological mortality. I honestly cannot comprehend how a logical person could be more satisfied with option 1.
• 

  kid-A

  "Since you haven't been in existence forever, you can only ASSume this is the case."

  Oh warlock, you are just too clever for us! Look how he capitalized the "ASS" in "assume"....wow.....we're impressed! Hey, when you get to second grade, they let you do finger paintings! LOL............
• 

  Warlock

  Oh warlock, you are just too clever for us! Look how he capitalized the "ASS" in "assume"....wow.....we're impressed! Hey, when you get to second grade, they let you do finger paintings! LOL............

  For an atheist, you seem to have a short memory. Chew on that.

  Warlock
• 

  5go

  For an atheist, you seem to have a short memory. Chew on that.

  Warlock

  Seeing as I will assume you are a follower of Christ would your supposed savior act the way you do or there by apporve it. Chew on that.

  5go
• 

  Warlock

  Seeing as I will assume you are a follower of Christ would your supposed savior act the way you do or there by apporve it. Chew on that.

  5go

  As usual, you have NO IDEA what I'm talking about.

  Neither do you know what YOU are talking about.

  Go find an astrologer.

  Warlock
• 

  hillary_step

  Megadude,

  An interesting read - thank you.

  I especially found this statement of interest which discusses the evolutionary function of faith :

  Yet biblical faiths endure. Harvard biologist Edward O. Wilson, once a born-again Christian before undergoing what he describes as an epiphany inspired by his discovery of the richness of evolutionary theory, says humans innately hunger for something larger than themselves. Our conscious minds desperately crave permanent existence—everlasting life—and belief in eternal life helps ensure the survival of civilizations. Faith has an evolutionary function. "There is a hereditary selective advantage to membership in a powerful group united by devout belief and purpose," he writes in his book Consilience. "Even when individuals subordinate themselves and risk death in common cause, their genes are more likely to be transmitted to the next generation than those of competing groups who lack equivalent resolve."

  Cheers - HS
• 

  heathen

  I kinda lost interest whenever he started going on about his lineage and possible decendancy to the apostle Thomas . Like that would make a difference and provide legitimacy to his arguments ...............................
• 

  gumby

  My personal feeling ( which don't mean squat) is that anything material must come from a source.

  OK, how do you define "material"? Does the source also have to be material? In this case, god would also have to be "material", which would completely contradict all religious concepts of a "spirit" being, with no end and no beginning

  Kid-A,

  First off, I'm agnostic and don't have a clue as to what the hell I believe in anymore......sadly.

  My point is, the chance that a creator exists seems to be as possible as the chance that none exists, but moreso that one exists at least in my own personal understanding.

  As for what "material" is, it would be anything seen or unseen that has substance. Especially in something that is seen such as things in the universe such as hard mass as in rock. As far as the human mind can comprehend.....everything comes from something doesn't it? Even electricity comes from various elements although it's unseen ( at least to humans).

  My point is, why be dogmatic that no god/creator exists when there is at least some logical chance that one/many could possibly exist?

  Therer is also the idea that we just don't have the answers.....such as how does god come from nothing? How can material mass(as seen by humans) come from nothing?

  I guess the bottom line is that nobody should adopt one solid belief when there is the possibility that there might be other alternative answers.

  Now, on to the more important issue's in life Kid. Whens the last time you had your nutsack buffed to a high sheen?

  Gumshinner
• 

  144001

  Interesting article, Mega. However, I don't buy the assertion that for something to exist, something must have always existed.

  Excellent points, Gumby.

  I am agnostic, and I'm of the opinion that the question of man's origin is beyond human comprehension. I think it's up to us, as the apparent superior intellectual beings on the planet, to do our best to make the world a better place for all beings who reside here, and not just man.

  .
• 

  heathen

  reviewed by Nutonian scientists who believed in absolutes of time and space?

  I assume you mean newtonian? as in Isaac newton? Evolutionists seem to believe that matter always existed and that the entire universe was once the size of the head of a pin whenever gravity ruled the day . Suddenly enough energy exploded and caused the big bang .Then we had energy . Doesn't make much sense to me .