Should I be doing more?

by WTLies 27 Replies latest jw friends

• 

  WTLies

  My story is posted in the "Personal Experiences" section of this discussion board and someone responded with and interesting observation. He said that it's great that I'm now out but that I have 'dues to pay' to those whom I have disfellowshipped and talked out of going to college while serving as an elder.

  While serving as an elder I did share in disfellowshipping several members of the congregation, many of whom are still out there being shunned by family and friends. When i think back, there was advice that I gave to wives to stay with their husbands that I would never give now. There were bright young children who's futures would have been entirely different had they gone to college and gotten a degree. In my opinion I do bear responsibility even though I was not teaching thoughts that originated with me but rather the Watchtower. I feel as though I had to do something to pay for the lives ruined. I now help with a small ministry call Honor the Son ran by Bruce Carter. He is invited to go to churches and other places to help those who have family and friends who are JW's. We show the JW's and their families out of their own bible who the real Jesus is. At these siminars we expose the many false teachings of the Watchtower doctrine. Bruce has spoken severl times as the Witnesses now for Jesus Convention that Joan Cetnar holds in October every year. I really enjoy helping and telling others what I know about the Society. Many have shared their appreciation with me for helping out with this Ministry. I also have a room I regularly open on AOL called 'Ex JW Support Group' where we can meet and offer support to one another. As well as share information that I have compiled over the years of different local support groups across the country and phone numbers where those who are depressed can call for professional, help or just someone to talk to who really understands what they are going through
  
  Is this enough though? Should I be doing more? Do I owe it to those who's lives I have ill effected to find them and offer them my regrets? I feel like Paul before he became Paul; he was killer of God's people then he was transformed. Afterwards he helped many but the bible doesnt say if he did anything else to make up what he had did in the past.

  I would love to hear your thoughts on this, it would help me out a lot. This has been weighing heavily on my mind.

  William,
  formerly a member of a Non-Prophet
  Organization
• 

  TheOldHippie

  There were bright young children who's futures would have been entirely different had they gone to college and gotten a degree.
  ***************************************************************
  If you councelled young children not to go to college, then you went way further than what you were "allowed" or "supposed" to do, as that is entirely the decision of the person in question him-/herself. I fear I see once again the taking out on the organization to which one once belonged, the errors one made as an individual when one was stretching beyond what one was supposed to do.
  OK, come on, strangle me as you use to do once I dare to utter something impopular with you guys ...........
• 

  pettygrudger

  The answer comes w/in your own bible WT. And, its pretty clear - God & Jesus can forgive all. Besides, you were led into this "brainwashing" as much as any other person on this board. We are all "guilty", if thats what you call it, of being led down that cult path. Just because you got a little farther ahead than others, well that doesn't really matter. You are doing everything you can to help them now. Sharing your own experiences reaches some who have been hurt, and perhaps your words will comfort & help them. LOL - unless ya wanna pay for my son's education as I never went to college? (thats a joke - lighten up - God wants us to be HAPPY - not swivel around in self-loathing, doubt & unhappiness).
• 

  wannahelp

  I won't strangle you OldHippie,

  But I will defend William..

  I do remember reading exceprts from old Watchtower literature that it was heavily suggested NOT to goto college, for why waste the time learning when you won't need it in the new system.. You should spend your time going out in field service instead..

  Maybe someone who has a CD-ROM can find the articles and post them for ya, old...

  William:

  You sound like you are really helping many people.. I'm quite sure that God knows what's in your heart, and he also knows that everyone is but a single person, and cannot 'do it all'.. Unlike the watchtower, who says do more and more and more to prove that you are a man of "god -- oops, a man of men", god doesn't need works to prove who you are.. He can see into your heart... Follow your heart, but remember to balance your life in the process (Real balance, not WT balance, which as we all know, is unbalanced in the extreme!!!)

  May god bless both of you...
• 

  ianao

  Oh I just love it.

  So, according to ol'Hippie

  If a someone who considers themself "divinely guided" tells you that you should go out and take a dump on the road as it is God's will, then you do so and get arrested, it was your own fault for listening to the one who recommended you take a dump on the road to remain in favor with God as it was your personal choice to do so. The "divinely guided" one has done nothing wrong.

  And 2+2 does equal 5!
• 

  Pathofthorns

  If you councelled young children not to go to college, then you went way further than what you were "allowed" or "supposed" to do, as that is entirely the decision of the person in question him-/herself.

  While it is true that an individual could not get disfellowshipped for going to college prior to the article giving the green light, it certainly was discouraged strongly in print and at every level.

  To say that William "way further than what you were "allowed" or "supposed" to do" and that it was "entirely the decision of the person in question him-/herself" betrays a lack of honesty in admitting how the organization really works. The truth is, before new light on education, William did EXACTLY what he was allowed and supposed to do.

  The society has never encouraged higher learning, but only pointed out how unwise such a course would be. Elders would meet with young ones to ensure they would take up a 'career' in pioneering and any young ones reaching out for higher education would be deemed materialistic, weak and not offered congregation priveleges.

  Only since that article was written, called something like "education with a purpose", would William have overstepped his assignement by turning young ones away from higher education, and even then the Society would have turned a blind eye.

  Hundreds of thousands of bright JWs who turned down scholarships and further education testify that something from within caused them to do this, and this was certainly what the GB encouraged at the time.

  Path
• 

  Farkel

  If you are helping people because you want to do so, that is commendable. If you are helping people out of deep guilt, that is residual WatchtowerThink. You were every bit as much of a victim as you were a perpetrator.

  Ray Franz said that we are "victims of victims." Don't be so hard on yourself, and you'll be just fine.

  Farkel

  "When in doubt, duck!"
• 

  JanH

  OldHippie demonstrates ignorance and/or selective memory again:

  If you councelled young children not to go to college, then you went way further than what you were "allowed" or "supposed" to do, as that is entirely the decision of the person in question him-/herself.

  
  Two quotations for you:

  "If you are a young person, you also need to face the fact that you will never grow old in this present system of things. Why not? Because all the evidence in fulfillment of Bible prophecy indicates that this corrupt system is due to end in a few years. Of the generation that observed the beginning of the "last days" in 1914, Jesus foretold: "This generation will by no means pass away until all these things occur."- Matt. 24:34. Therefore, as a young person, you will never fulfill any career that this system offers. If you are in high school and thinking about a college education, it means at least four, perhaps even six or eight more years to graduate into a specialized career. But where will this system of things be by that time? It will be well on the way toward its finish, if not actually gone! This is why parents who base their lives on God's prophetic Word find it much more practical to direct their young ones into trades that do not require such long periods of additional schooling. And trades such as carpentry, plumbing, and others, will be useful not only now, but perhaps even more so in the reconstruction work that will take place in God's new order. With such practical trades, many young persons have been able to sustain themselves with part-time work. This allows them to spend much more of their time helping interested persons to learn God's requirements for life by studying the Bible with them. True, those who do not understand where we are in the stream of time from God's viewpoint will call this impractical. But which is really practical: preparing yourself for a position in this world that soon will pass away? Or working toward surviving this system's end and enjoying eternal life in God's righteous new order?”" Awake!, May 22. 1969, page 15. Bold added.

  "All worldly careers are soon to come to an end. So, why should today’s youth get interested in ‘higher education’ for a future that will never eventuate? The colleges are falling into chaos, anyway. The essentials of education for a useful life can be obtained by studying well at high school, and beyond that there is also the ‘highest education’ that Jehovah provides through his organization, preparing for a satisfying career of full-time service that goes on forever. (Ps. 71:5, 17; 61:8) Let young people, and older people, too, avoid reading matter, TV and movies that highlight worldliness. Rather than see how close one can keep to the world’s course and yet stay in the truth, how much wiser to see how far away one can get from the interests and ways of the world! - 2 Cor. 6:17; Rom. 12:2.”" Watchtower, September 15. 1971, page 563.

  - Jan
  --
  "Doctor how can you diagnose someone with Obsessive Compulsive Disorder and then act like I had some choice about barging in here right now?" -- As Good As It Gets
• 

  JT

  Old Hippie says:

  OK, come on, strangle me as you use to do once I dare to utter something impopular with you guys

  ######

  i don't think anyone needs to stangle you , but merely point out to you that you missed a very important part of the org-

  That in the order there are 2 types of instructions WRITTEN AND UNWRITTEN

  while it is true that the WT has not DIRECTLY STATED ALOT OF THINGS i like the way our old DO used to put it

  WHAT WAY IS THE SOCIETY LEANING- is the catch phrase that he would use

  i merely suggest that you become bettter informed on how High Control Groups are able to get their followers to do lots of things - many times without directly stating such
  what he did as an elder is exactly what he was suppose to do on the issue of Going to college- i will post for you 2 examples later that show

  while on one hand the wt says IT'S YOUR CHOICE

  they also show that your choice shows how little or how much you love god

  as stated i suggest you brush up on your knowledge of how High Control groups works

  james
• 

  TheOldHippie

  Only problem is, I am in the "control group" myself ..........
  And have started on a couple of university level courses, and "finished them successfully", after becoming a "cult member" without anyone ever raising eyebrows. I have completed my BA after I joined - no problem. I take an additional language university level subject now - no problem.
  If someone asks me - my reply will be, "go ahead!"
  To my children, it has been, "go ahead! - there is always need for someone with a good education, and if you're lucky, you'll manage to find that rare space for yourself where there are not so many others."
  So this control group guy refuses to control, but leaves it to each and everyone.
  There ARE no unwritten laws or "lean-on's". If it is not written, they don't exist - UNLESS YOU ALLOW THEM TO EXIST. Say "No!" and take it to the end, and you'll see taht you are the winner, because what is not written, does not exist.