That would mean an additional expense for the org there would be so many extra mouths to feed and no doubt other arrangements would have to be made to accomodate them. This org doesn't like being so generous to its members.
Can't have kids while working at Bethel? This is like Anti-family right?
by NotaNess 19 Replies latest jw friends
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Gayle
If a couple gets pregnant at Bethel, they have to leave. Yayyy!!! I did that!! Believe me, it is for the best for the child and mother. Anyway, the children would steal the show, the GB wouldn't like that.
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NotaNess
Juni typed:
I noticed from reading 5th generation's post about his daughter's b/day that you also have a 10 year old daughter. I raised 4 (3 boys, 1 girl) in the organization. There is no way in h*** that I would want to submit them to such a regimented lifestyle w/all that goes along with it.
Not sure I quite get which side you're favoring here.
Do you mean the deprivation of kids enjoyment of birthdays or you think that birthdays are a big hassle, ie. putting them together. As in 4 kids = lots of work?
If you mean the latter, then I would say that sounds like Witnesses griping about "worldly" people putting up decorations for the Holidays...."why would anyone want to go through all that"?, is what I've heard from them.
I'll sum it up - joy, happiness, fun, creativety, family & friends. Kind of what God gave to us to have don't you think?
If you meant the deprivation, then yes I agree, witness kids are very much deprived of some of the happier things in life.
As for the Bethel thing, it was very sarcasticly implied. The point is that they feel they have to leave kids out of the flow of things, based on THEIR way of doing things in the borganization. If done lovingly and with common sense, kids would not impede the structure there. Atleast that's what those with "honest" hearts feel.
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neverendingjourney
I'm no fan of JWs (I just got away after giving them the best years of my youth), but this is no more anti-family than priests and nuns not being able to have kids, or Christian missionaries, for that matter. I personally have very little tolerance for religious people that point out the flaws in the JW system belief system but can't see that those very flaws are present in their own system of belief. These people are just like current JWs, in my opinion.
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juni
Hi NotaNess. I know what I'm talking about......don't know why you don't. LOL
Not sure I quite get which side you're favoring here.
Do you mean the deprivation of kids enjoyment of birthdays or you think that birthdays are a big hassle, ie. putting them together. As in 4 kids = lots of work?
If you mean the latter, then I would say that sounds like Witnesses griping about "worldly" people putting up decorations for the Holidays...."why would anyone want to go through all that"?, is what I've heard from them.
I'll sum it up - joy, happiness, fun, creativety, family & friends. Kind of what God gave to us to have don't you think?
If you meant the deprivation, then yes I agree, witness kids are very much deprived of some of the happier things in life.
As for the Bethel thing, it was very sarcasticly implied. The point is that they feel they have to leave kids out of the flow of things, based on THEIR way of doing things in the borganization. If done lovingly and with common sense, kids would not impede the structure there. Atleast that's what those with "honest" hearts feel.
Yes, yes, yes!! Witness kids are deprived of so much. We both agree on that.
I thought you meant that kids should be welcomed to Bethel w/their parents or husband/wife should be able to have kids while serving there. I didn't know you were being sarcastic. I thought that was your belief. Therefore, that's why I wrote what I did.
To me that would be a bad place for kids to live. They would be expected to shine like little stars representing "mother" organization at the hub.
I hope that clears it up. Sometimes my thoughts get ahead of my typing.
Juni
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NotaNess
I'm no fan of JWs (I just got away after giving them the best years of my youth), but this is no more anti-family than priests and nuns not being able to have kids, or Christian missionaries, for that matter. I personally have very little tolerance for religious people that point out the flaws in the JW system belief system but can't see that those very flaws are present in their own system of belief. These people are just like current JWs, in my opinion.
Well good thing I'm not in a faith that agrees with the priest and nun situation then huh? Now you can tolerate me. However, I might agree if you were comparing apples to apples but you're not.
I'm not talking about leaders in faith, I'm talking about an organization that says, "if you want to do good for God here, then you'll have to ignore starting a family, or enjoying the love that comes with having a family", so you can't serve Jehovah, and have a family there. Same goes for the Catholics, or any faith that TAKES LOVE OUT of living for God. That leaves a negative not a positive. It's anti-God. It's slavery. This is how little the WTS thinks of it's R & F. You just can't do 2 things at once as a witness, I guess.
I'll point out flaws in this False organization all day long, doesn't mean other faiths are perfect in my mind, we are all sinners and flawed are we not? Some just more than others apparently.
It is true that in the witness system of things in Bethel, kids are spared the aggressive brain washing, and that IS good, I totally agree. The Christian Church as a whole, has a much better program for it's children, no doubt about it. But it stands to reason, this is just another reason, the dubs have so little followers comparitively. Poor agenda, poor programs, lack of creativity, thought control, hate, feelings of superiority, closed minded, tunnel vision, mis-leading, conditional love.........................................................................................
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neverendingjourney
You missed my point, NotaNess. I’ve read a lot of your posts and it seems like you are all too willing to take shots at the JWs, but have you ever had the courage to sit back and evaluate your religious beliefs and the ideas that you were indoctrinated with as a child? If not, what the hell do you think gives you the right to sit back in judgment of others? It’s easy for you to sit back and poke holes at the JW religion, but have you ever gone through what we that have left the religion have undergone? Do you know how difficult it is to lose faith in everything you ever believed was true? The people you seem so happy to poke fun at are people that include my parents, siblings, and friends I grew up around. I don’t really appreciate the tone you take, or are you one of those voyeuristic sick bastards that likes to slow down at the scene of an accident to see if you can catch a glimpse of a dead body lying at the side of the road.
A lot of use here have gone through excruciating pain and misery that you will never understand. You can choose to hide behind your long-held religious beliefs, but it means nothing to me unless you can honestly sit back and say that you’ve gone through the process we’ve gone through of analyzing your faith and reexamining it with honesty and openness. I have read a lot of the posts from other non-JWs that are very courteous and respectful. Many of them sympathize with us and try to help us out. A lot of them openly accept criticism of their own faith and try to earnestly search for truth. What do you want? To prove that JWs are wrong? We know that already. This is a forum that XJWs use to try to help find others for moral support and companionship. I have no patience for religious people that come on these types of discussion boards to poke fun of and criticize the JW faith UNLESS they are willing to critically assess their faith as well, or do you still believe in the fairy tales you were taught as a child?
For all the former JW that now embrace another religious set of beliefs, this isn’t directed at you. This is directed a religious people that show the same stubbornness and narrow-mindedness that JWs show and come on these types of discussion boards to criticize JWs yet refuse to recognize that their religious beliefs might be wrong. -
NotaNess
You missed my point, NotaNess. I’ve read a lot of your posts and it seems like you are all too willing to take shots at the JWs, but have you ever had the courage to sit back and evaluate your religious beliefs and the ideas that you were indoctrinated with as a child? If not, what the hell do you think gives you the right to sit back in judgment of others? It’s easy for you to sit back and poke holes at the JW religion, but have you ever gone through what we that have left the religion have undergone? Do you know how difficult it is to lose faith in everything you ever believed was true? The people you seem so happy to poke fun at are people that include my parents, siblings, and friends I grew up around. I don’t really appreciate the tone you take, or are you one of those voyeuristic sick bastards that likes to slow down at the scene of an accident to see if you can catch a glimpse of a dead body lying at the side of the road.
A lot of use here have gone through excruciating pain and misery that you will never understand. You can choose to hide behind your long-held religious beliefs, but it means nothing to me unless you can honestly sit back and say that you’ve gone through the process we’ve gone through of analyzing your faith and reexamining it with honesty and openness. I have read a lot of the posts from other non-JWs that are very courteous and respectful. Many of them sympathize with us and try to help us out. A lot of them openly accept criticism of their own faith and try to earnestly search for truth. What do you want? To prove that JWs are wrong? We know that already. This is a forum that XJWs use to try to help find others for moral support and companionship. I have no patience for religious people that come on these types of discussion boards to poke fun of and criticize the JW faith UNLESS they are willing to critically assess their faith as well, or do you still believe in the fairy tales you were taught as a child?
For all the former JW that now embrace another religious set of beliefs, this isn’t directed at you. This is directed a religious people that show the same stubbornness and narrow-mindedness that JWs show and come on these types of discussion boards to criticize JWs yet refuse to recognize that their religious beliefs might be wrong.Where do I start? If you haven't read my post on some reasons why I joined here, I'll elaborate.
For the last 3 years, I've spent approximately 6,000 hours of my life working/living with about 7 JWs where I work. To put it in perspective, there's 8 people that work at this place. I'm the only one who's not a witness. And I've been baptised and belong to a church for only 3 years as well. You've heard the term "a sheep among wolves" right? Well, I'm living it. They know I think they are living a lie and are under mind control. We've had many arguements, as you can imagine. This forum is truly a venting place for my situation, you have no idea. But I mean no harm to anyone. Dealing with these people is half of my daily living. I was interested in learning their version of faith in the beginning, but was immediately pushed away after discovering things like you all did here on this forum for the first time. But I've been all over the net with my researching too. I was lurking here for possibly a couple years before I joined.
What you call poking fun is your opinion. For me it's pointing out faults, that are WORSE than the faults of other faiths, even my own. I already stated in my previous post that I wasn't saying other faiths were perfect, so pay attention. And I have to tell you, there are a lot more posters here with uglier comments than what I've stated.
I have stated in other posts, that I respect everyone here, but if I have something to say, I'm gonna say it, and I won't be using potty mouth to do it as some others do.
I've spent many discussions previous to my walk with Christ, arguing the validity of the bible with many Christians. I've always believed in God though. I am relatively new at having my faith, but I don't have to have that faith to see what's wrong with this organization. I could be athiest, and would still point out the faults of the WTS, plenty of others do.
I know scripture talks about judging others, but the reality is we do judge people, and if we don't it can be careless.
Trust me when I tell you, I feel for you witnesses that were under this mind control in your lives and the damage it has done, and those currently living it. I see what you all have experienced and, I experience some of it at work on a regular basis. Mostly my situation at work is, I have to keep my mouth shut, and keep it all inside or there's problems, so what that does is force me to have to listen to comments, that I can't stand up and give alternative discussion to. Believe it or not, these people have also become kind of like family as well. I truly care about my co-workers, and that's what is also troubling for me. It's like seeing a family member caught up on drugs, and I can't help out.
I'm sorry if you thought I've been just out to bash witnesses, but that's not my goal. Some here are ex-jws, and don't have to put up with actives, I have to daily. I think I've got reason to be here. If any of you think I should go, I will, just let me know. But I need atleast 2 witnesses though on anything that's pointed out as reason I should go though, & a JWDF Judicial Committee to visit my house to let me know on what grounds.
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neverendingjourney
NotaNess, I'm sorry if I overreacted. My emotions are all over the place right now. I'm in a very difficult position. I'm dealing with a lot of issues. I have lost an entire belief system and I have nothing to replace it with. I went from feeling like I was part of something special, part of God's plan to right everything that's wrong with the world, to feeling like I've been lied to and betrayed. I feel that I have given the best years of my life to a worthless cause. I'm in limbo right now. Even though I'm far away from my family, I can't stray too far from the JW lifestyle for fear of losing everything I love. I can't wear a beard; I'm afraid to date non JWs; I try to keep as low a profile as possible in an attempt to hide the fact that I no longer believe in the religion I was brought up in. My greatest desire is to be able to someday soon help my parents out financially since they're not well off and have never had access to a lot of nice things that many people have. They don't have a dollar to their name right now. Will I be denied this privilege if I just walk out and leave this religion? Will I be denied access to my nephew whom I've been close to since he was born?
I'm constantly in a state of flux trying to piece my life together. I hate JW bashing for the sake of JW bashing because the people I most love are still in it. Moreover, I was one of the duped idiots people make fun of. Being under that form of mind control is something that people that have not gone through that experience can not relate to. The thought of people coming on this site to poke fun of those of us that have gone through these horrible experiences not knowing themselves what the experience is actually like sickens me. I’m sorry if I misjudged you. I fully support your desire to learn as much as you can about the religion, especially if you intend to help your co-workers out. Good luck. I'm neither the owner nor the administrator of this site, and it's not my intention to suggest that anyone should "stay" or "leave." All opinions are welcome. Again, I apologize for my being so rash. I hope you understand.
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NotaNess
You need hugs.
As I've stated, I truly am in deep feelings for yours and other's situations. This reason is why also, that I have somewhat of a need to vent my thoughts on this orgs control, as do those who are ex-jws. You don't have to be an active or in-active to see and feel the pain of your situation.
This is the last thing you want to hear but, if you have a hard time finding comfort in your struggle, read some other's posts on not giving up on God, finding Christ, feeling real un-conditional love and compassion in a local Christian congregation. You will experience things unlike you were conditioned to in the "truth".
I belong to a more contemporary youthful on the edge kind of church, very creative and active, fun and uplifting. Great for lifting spirits. We have many programs, and groups to help with life issues, fellowship and support. When you get into some of the older, more traditional types of churches, you don't get that same energized "on fire" for God experience, but the message is still pretty much the same when it's all boiled down. It's the style that can really make a difference for different people, it did for me.
If this is completely out of the question, find some other loving friendly good moral based community group, that you can volunteer or join in at. You can make great friends, that can help ease what you're going through until it hopefully works out the way you need it to. I also know you probably get a ton of love here too.
For some Christian energy start by juicing up with some good alternative Christian groups like:
By the Tree / Newsboys / Switchfoot / Chris Tomlin / Jeremy Camp / David Crowder Band / Superchick / Kutless
If you just want to sample their styles, go to iTunes and search these groups, double click on 30 second clips of their songs.
Keep your chin up, hang in there.