Thanks Blondie, very well done. I've been lurking and reading your WT summaries for a while. After reading the pukefest that is this week's study, I rather go and spend time in the park enjoying the sunshine. Better than hearing the parrots repeat the FDS mind-alternating garbage for a hour. I hate it when the elders comment that 'Jehovah knows everything' or 'You cannot hide anything from us' Give me a break, threats like that work on people who rather choose to be duped by this cult. For us who are critical thinkers, studies like this show how stupid the borg looks these days with it arcane thinking.
Comments You Will Not Year At the 6-3-07 WT Study (BUILD UP CONG?)
by blondie 33 Replies latest watchtower bible
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blondie
I spelled "segway" wrong on purpose. I think It was last week I used it and spelled it correctly.
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it-1p.130Apostle***The testimony of the Holy Scriptures is clear that the apostle Paul was never referred to as one of "the twelve." Therefore, it logically followsthat one of "the twelve names of the twelve apostles of the Lamb" inscribed on the foundation stones of the New Jerusalem is that of Matthias and not that of Paul.
Remember that Matthias was chosen by casting lots not holy spirit unless the holy spirit guided the landing of the lots. I guess they 11 had no idea what spiritual qualifications were.
R550, page 3, WT 11/1883
Of Matthias, on whom the lot fell to be an Apostle, we never hear afterward. He was with them at Pentecost, and was one of the hundred and twenty who received the baptism of the Holy Spirit, but his record ends there. The special mission of the Apostles is clearly defined in `Acts 1:8`--our Lord's last words before his ascension: "Ye shall receive power after that the Holy Spirit is come upon you, and ye shall be witnessesunto me both in Jerusalem and inJudea, and in Samaria, and unto theuttermost part of the earth."
While this, in a general sense, applied to the whole company of those early disciples, and while in fact by their faith and example, as a company who had actually seen the Lord both before and after his resurrection, they have been witnesses to all the world; yet in the strictest sense, it applied to those specially chosen as public teachers and witnesses; and those same twelve Apostles still speak through their writings, and shall continue to do so until the knowledge of the Lord shall fill the whole earth.
Since to be an Apostle was to be a witness of the Lord's resurrection, nonecould be Apostles except those who had seen Jesus after his resurrection, hence the eleven felt confident that the one for Judas' place should be chosen from the company present, but Jehovah had another plan and was preparing an instrument of his own choosing in the person of Saul of Tarsus. Saul of Tarsus? The disciples would never have thought of him. He was the most noted and dreaded persecutor of the church known to them, not only in Jerusalem, but pursuing them even unto strange cities; neither had he seen the Lord after his resurrection. Nevertheless Saul of Tarsus was a chosen vessel of the Lord, to bear his name before the Gentiles, and kings and the children of Israel; (`Acts 9:15`) and his after course gave fullproof of his Apostleship. Though Saul was not among those who saw our Lord as he appeared --in the flesh--after his resurrection, this was no barrier to God's plan under which he was "chosen from his mother's womb" to be an Apostle. Hence we read, "Last of all he was seen of (by) me also." (`1 Cor. 15:8`.) While the other Apostles saw Jesus as he appeared after his resurrection, in various human bodies, Saul saw him ashe is --a glorious spiritual body shining above the brightness of the noon-day sun. The effect of the personal glory of the Lord as seen by Paul, was to strike him blind, and only by a miracle was his sight restored.
As Paul saw Jesus--a glorious spiritual being--so all the little flock shall see him when born of the Spirit--in the resurrection. As at their conversion and consecration, they are begotten of the Spirit, in the resurrection they are born of the Spirit. When we see him "as he is," it will not have the effect on us that it had on Paul, for he saw him "as one born out of due time" (more properly before the time); but we (and Paul also at that time) shall see him ashe IS, for we shall be changed and be spiritual and glorious beings like him, being fashioned like unto his glorious body.
In view of the benefit to be derived from such an example as Paul, it would be well to note in what a marked way the Lord gave proof of his calling. Some at the present day, in looking back to the early church, appear to think that they, unlike the church of to-day, moved along very smoothly, and that because they had actually seen the Lord and heard from his own lips, there was little or no trial of faith, and no differences of opinion among them; that having the Apostles directly appointed of the Lord and present with them, their teachings were all received without doubt or questioning; and, in short, that all was harmony, save the trials that came from the outside world, from those who did not profess to love or follow the Lord Jesus.
But this we find is far from the facts in the case. Immediately after the baptism of the Spirit at Pentecost, all were of one mind and full of hope and joy-- "And the word of God increased, and the number of the disciples multiplied in Jerusalem greatly, and a great company of the priests were obedient to the faith." (`Acts 6:7`.) And many gladly received the word and were baptized --as many as three thousand in one day. These were genuine conversions too, and not the result of excitement and impulse, for they continued steadfastly in the Apostle's doctrine and fellowship, and gave evidence of a spirit of sacrifice. Such were added to the Church daily. (`Acts 2:41-47`.)
While rejoicing in the truth, the fierce persecutions from without, only served to more firmly unite them in love and sympathy, and in defense of the truth against a common foe. But soon difficulties arose among themselves. Some began to "depart from the faith once delivered to the saints," to be "corrupted from the simplicity that is in Christ," and their evil influence was great.
It was in the very beginning of the outcroppings of error, that Paul's clear teachings and manifest leadings of the Spirit marked him as the very chief of the Apostles, a teacher of teachers, the special mouth-piece of the Lord.R1440, page 270, WT 9/1/1892
The instance of this lesson affords also a striking illustration of the Lord's personal oversight and supervision of the interests of his Church, both as a company and as individuals. By the loss of Judas a vacancy had occurred in the company of the apostles, which vacancy the apostles themselves endeavored to fill by their election of Matthias. (`Acts 1:26`.) This they had no authority to do, but, presuming such to be the Lord's will, they chose two and asked the Lord to indicate which of the two whom they had selected would be his choice; and when the lot fell upon Matthias-- for it must of course fall on one of the two-- the eleven accepted him as the Lord's choice for the place of Judas. But the sequel showed that the Lord merely ignored their presumption in the matter, and in his own time and way chose Saul of Tarsus, a man at heart devoted to the service of God and needing only to be enlightened by the truth when all his consecrated powers would be fully enlisted in the blessed work of bearing the name of Christ to the Gentiles as well as to the Jews. And this Saul, afterward called Paul, was the most noted, self-sacrificing and efficient of all the apostles.
R1891, p 261, WT 11/15/1895
True, one or a few might not be consistent with their profession, but the majority vote would undoubtedly be under the Lord's direction, and the expression of his will; and, in full faith, it should be so regarded. But it might still be urged by some that, notwithstanding their carefulness to have the vote of the Church only, the majority vote of the Church might still be in error, not expressing the mind of the Lord; and the case of the selection of Matthias by the eleven apostles to fill the place of Judas might be cited as an instance of such failure, together with the fact that the Lord simply ignored their choice and subsequently made his own choice of Paul.
This, however, was not a selection by the Church under the direction of the holy spirit; for this was before Pentecost, the holy spirit had not yet been given (`John 7:39`), and the disciples were not yet recognized of God as the Church. Besides, none of the apostles were chosen in the same way as the elders of the various congregations, nor could they be: the Church, the body of Christ, was not yet in existence. Only the Head of the Church had yet been recognized, and he had not yet been glorified. All of the twelve were chosen directly by the Lord, and in due time qualified for their special service to the whole body. The appointing of "elders in every place" enjoined by the apostles is entirely separate and distinct from the appointment of the twelve apostles directly by the Lord, in which matter the Church had no voice whatever, and could have none. -
SirNose586
15) In modern times, some have ceased as¬sociating with the local congregation, feel¬ing that they will serve God on their own. They may say that it is because their feelings were hurt, they think a wrong is not being corrected, or they cannot accept some teach¬ing. How reasonable is their course? While it is true that each Christian should have a per¬sonal relationship with God, we cannot deny that he is using a worldwide congregation, as he did in the apostles' day. Furthermore, Je¬hovah used and blessed local congregations in the first century, arranging for qualified el¬ders and ministerial servants to benefit the congregations. That is also true today.
Classic ad hominem attack, while ignoring the problem. Par for the course, eh?
Nice work on this one, Blondie...
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BluesBrother
Q16) If tempted to leave the congregation, a person should think about what?
"16) If a Christian feels that he can rely just on his own relationship with God, he is turn¬ing away from a God-ordained arrangement--that of both the worldwide congregation and the local congregations of God's people. The individual might go off on his own or be associating with just a few others, but where is the arrangement for congregation elders and the provision of ministerial servants? Significantly, when Paul wrote to the congre¬gation in Colossae and directed that the let¬ter be read also in Laodicea, he spoke of be¬ing "rooted and being built up in [Christ]." Those in the congregations, not individu¬als who separated themselves from such, would benefit from this.-Colossians 2:6, 7; 4:16."
Is that not a leading question that could provoke a negative response? i know of a dub who will not attend today because of the hassle received recently from those very elders who are cited as being the reason for staying.
If tempted to leave, I am sure a lot could think of a good many reasons...The Society is seeing a haemorrhage of members...Will this stem the flow?????
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BluesBrother
Q16) If tempted to leave the congregation, a person should think about what?
"16) If a Christian feels that he can rely just on his own relationship with God, he is turn¬ing away from a God-ordained arrangement--that of both the worldwide congregation and the local congregations of God's people. The individual might go off on his own or be associating with just a few others, but where is the arrangement for congregation elders and the provision of ministerial servants? Significantly, when Paul wrote to the congre¬gation in Colossae and directed that the let¬ter be read also in Laodicea, he spoke of be¬ing "rooted and being built up in [Christ]." Those in the congregations, not individu¬als who separated themselves from such, would benefit from this.-Colossians 2:6, 7; 4:16."
Is that not a leading question that could provoke a negative response? i know of a dub who will not attend today because of the hassle received recently from those very elders who are cited as being the reason for staying.
If tempted to leave, I am sure a lot could think of a good many reasons...The Society is seeing a haemorrhage of members...Will this stem the flow?????
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jeanV
thank you blondie. a lot or articles lately on staying in the organisation...
...The Society is seeing a haemorrhage of members...Will this stem the flow?????
It depends on the mental weakness/strength of the readers. With the younger generations they stand no chance.
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The Oracle
Great post Blondie!
You provided some pretty good material. I could have used some of it during today's lesson, by gently weaving in a few of the finer points to the discussion.
I am relatively new here, and I'm wondering if you do this every week?
If so, I look forward to next week's WT study review which I will happily read before I head off to the meeting.
Cheers,
The Oracle (an undercover elder working to expose the organization for what it really is... from the inside)
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zack
I once told an elder in my cong. who had very negative views about some sports, but who himself loved fishing, that if he didn't quit putting down golf and basketball from the platform that I would weave into a talk how fishing was ungodly. I then proceeded to cite three scriptures to him. He lay low about his personal opinions on sports for a while.
My point to him was that if you are determined enough, you can labor a few scriptures to say whatever you want them to. And that's what the WTS does. They're wholly dishonest and corrupt. They are not and have never been part of the Body of Christ because they shut up the kingdom of God to their members a lifetime ago. They are anti-christ and, moreover anti-spirit, and that is the very reason there is no love and no truth within their ranks: neither christ nor the spirit of God are within their midst. And when people think about leaving, it is because they have not felt Christ or God's spirit within their congregation. Everything JW is forced and enforced. Paul said that where the Spirit of God was, there was freedom also. Where is the freedom in the Org? There is only freedom OUTSIDE the Org. JW's who love God do well to heed his warning: Get out of her, my people!
Thanks Blondie.
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Robert222
Again, as with numerous other articles, its not getting me to run back to a kingdom hall. They are so far from the original concept of following christ its almost too obvious and easy to refute this article to any JW. Just because a group of lazy old men sitting in a penthouse in brooklyn tell me to attend 5 mtgs per week, spend my hard earned dollars traveling to conventions, and sitting for endless useless hours in a kingdom hall.
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Flowerpetal
Welcome to the forum, Oracle, and I'm looking forward to seeing your posts in the future.
Today, those being considered for appointment as elders must have proved their faith and devotion over time. Others in the congregation thus have reason to put trust in the direction and leadership provided through this arrangement.
When I was still attending meetings, I took a look at some of the elders in my hall--and didn't see any of them, maybe with the exception of one, who I could ever trust for leadership when and if persecution ever came. I just wouldn't trust their judgement.
While it is true that each Christian should have a personal relationship with God, we cannot deny that he is using a worldwide congregation, as he did in the apostles' day.
Each Christian? Does that mean non-anointed JWs? Do they really expect the R&F to have a personal relationship with God when they say only the spirit-begotten "Christian" has special relationship. It took me a few years to see thru this one.