Run in with cousin over the letter I sent the family

by dawg 22 Replies latest jw friends

  • dawg
    dawg

    As many of you are aware, I've been writing letters to many in my family telling them where I disagree with the WT; Imagine how surprised i was when my cousin invited me to his kid's graduation knowing that there were sure to be many Witnesses there who I assumed whoud be in the mood for confrontation. Of course I went, as I'm trying a new policy of not backing down from the witnesses; using reverse psycology to try and get them ashamed of being witnesses instead of them trying to make me feel bad about my disssent.

    After the graduation, my older cousin, who's much like a real brother to me said that we needed to talk. His first words were how much he loved me, and how disapointed he was that I'd been writing letters; I asked him if he disagreed with anything I said? He said that he knew about Beth Sarim, Pyramidology, and all that but it was a long time ago in the past, that the JW's had already admited their mistakes and that was enough... I said that wasn't enough when these men are making the claims they're making; like the claim that God is directing their work and that they can't be questioned without the one doing the questioning being ex-communicated. I asked him where the bible says I can't question men or that I should follow every dictate of the WTBTS, that if I don't my family and friends shouldn't have audience with me? He said he couldn't name a scripture that said that, "that's because they're stepping over the boundries as set forth in the Bible" said I. "THey're putting themselves in the place of God when they tell you that you haven't the right to intrepret the Bible for yourself".

    I also mentioned that 1914 was derived from the occult, and that the date 607 isn't accurate because it came from pyramidology. Basically the whole conversation all boiled down to him not having anywhere else to go; he said he couldn't go to Christendom... SO I asked him "Why do you need the WTBTS to become involved with your personal relationship with God as it is to him alone you should be worshipping". He had no answer sans the sad attempt to define the Witnesses as the true religion because they had figured out that many of the holidays are worng... "Even a blind squirl finds a nut" was my response, reminding him that doing one thing right doesn't mean God is guiding them.

    From what I can tell, everyone in the family is talking about the letters I've sent; he tried to discourage me by saying that my letters wern't doing any good, but I told him that almost everyone in the family had given me positive feedback about my letters, I told him that many are starting to see through the WT bull and they were happy I'd taken a stand. Believe it or not this is true, and my cousin who was talking to me at this moment hadn't even bothered to tell the elders on me; i asked him why he was talking to an apostate. He asked me if that was what I was, and I said absolutely as far as the WTBTS goes I am, but I will never be an apostate to God".

    Most of the conversation was very respectful; almost the whole conversation swayed my way as I was prepared for his cookie cutter responses straight form the WT. I had a logical answer for everything he said; after 30 minutes of dialogue of which he had grown weary of his JW indroctrinated responses being destroyed, he finally said "well I guess you don't mind dieing at Armageddon". Now, this took me by surprise, but I remembered something I'd seen in "Awakeing of a Jehovah's Witness" How a vicitm can feel better if they always stay in command, so I responded by telling him that I didn't believe a God of love would kill his children in such ways, "in fact, that threat doesn't scare me at all" I declaired.

    I would have to say that he did a good job of presenting his witness points, and he was very respectful and loving... I have nothing bad to say about him other than he's totally wrong about the Witnesses and I left there with a feeling he knew it. in A few more years; the WT is sure to do something stupid, they're going to have to change 1914 date for example; when this happens I truly believe that many in the family will drop out of this utter stupidity as this conversation made me feel that even the staunchest witness knows better deep inside. I'll keep you guys posted

  • What-A-Coincidence
    What-A-Coincidence

    dawg... MY EYES... split into nice WT parragraphs

  • OnTheWayOut
    OnTheWayOut
    using reverse psycology to try and get them ashamed of being witnesses instead of them trying
    to make me feel bad about my disssent.

    This is so true. Your cousin tried to make you feel bad about your leaving, going so far as to
    say "Well, I guess you don't mind dying at Armageddon". When the JW's talked to me after
    I stepped aside as elder, they always thought I was feeling sick and maybe kind words would
    cheer me up and snap me out of my problem.

    I am glad you are fighting your battles in your way. I don't choose the same confrontational
    methods, but I have my own ways. Your stand for what is right is very encouraging. If I am
    ever tripped up on the fade, I will be more vocal.

  • Quandry
    Quandry

    the JW's had already admited their mistakes and that was enough...

    Well that's the point, isn't it? How many JWs are even aware of these things? And where have "the JWs admitted their mistakes?" In the 1975 debacle they said "It is to be regretted" and really blamed the rank and file... When did they ever apologize for the pyrimidology? If they did that, they would have to admit that the year 1914 came from false information.

    But, I sympathize. You did back him into a corner. Not too long ago, I would have defended, also. Maybe you have given him food for thought. At least he did not shun you....

  • bigdreaux
    bigdreaux

    YEAH DAWG!!!!!!!!! HIGH FIVE. That rocks. i'm proud of you bro. I am looking forward to the day i can have this conversation with my folks. BTW, you never sent me the letter you wrote. anyway i can get a copy? good luck with the family. i'm pulling for you.

  • Irish Rose
    Irish Rose

    Wow, I never knew that. Learn something new every day. Could you please show me where the 1914 teaching came from the occult? It would be very good to have this ammunition when I go against my JW relatives.

  • M.J.
    M.J.

    Nah, 1914 didn't come from the occult. Sorry to be frank on this, but it's comments like that that can blow your credibility.

    1914 came from former Millerites...who had previously pointed to 1844 as the end. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Millerites

    Of course there were all sorts of wacky ideas floating around at the time like pyramidology, which Russell embraced to try and shore up his (already existing) chronology.

    The closest thing to dabbling in anything occult related (which is verifable) as far as I know, is The Golden Age's endorsement of "Angels and Women": http://www.premier1.net/~raines/review.html

  • smellsgood
    smellsgood

    Good job, Dawg, and I love your go for it attitude writing letters and everything!


    "the whole conversation all boiled down to him not having anywhere else to go; he said he couldn't go to Christendom... SO I asked him "Why do you need the WTBTS to become involved with your personal relationship with God as it is to him alone you should be worshipping"

    they are so screwed up in their thinking with the where will I go, you don't have to GO anywhere, you just need to get the poison out of your veins. If they remain believers if they leave the WT, as it sounds like you have, they don't need anywhere, if they believe in the bible, read it.

    That's sort of funny and sad about the point of the holidays. It's just a veneer way to "separate" themselves from evil Christendom. No substance really whatsoever.

    Good luck with your family, and keep doing what your doing. I wish you the best of success and love your attitude.


    sincerely


    smellsgood

  • dawg
    dawg

    Irish Rose, I'm not trying to make MJ mad but he's wrong on the 1914 NOT coming from the occult. Pyramidology and numerolgy are from the occult and it's one of the way's Russell came up with the 1914 date. Look up pyramidology and numerology in the encylopedia, it says its from the occult. Go to the six screens of the watchtower website and he has the pages from studies in the scriptures where Russell came up with the 1914 datre using the great pyramid of gaza. This is an oocult pratice and it does nothing to make you lose creditabily when it's used; it does destroy the 1914 date.

  • AlanF
    AlanF

    Dawg, you and others who claim that the 1914 date came from or was based on pyramidology are incorrect. The 1914 date was first published by Nelson Barbour in June, 1875, and was based on essentially the same calculations that the WTS uses today, except that some of the dates were slightly different. Barbour's calculations had nothing whatsoever to do with pyramidology. In 1876 Charles Russell accepted Barbour's calculations and published his own views later that year. In 1877 Joseph Seiss published Miracle in Stone, which really popularized a claimed connection between Bible history and "God's Stone Witness", the Great Pyramid of Gizeh. Several years after this, Charles and Maria Russell adopted pyramidology as a confirmation of their already-existing belief in Barbour's 1914 calculations.

    It's sadly true that Russell published a great deal about pyramidology from the mid-1880s until his death in 1916, and his followers continued doing so until 1928. But there was no connection with the occult in their minds. Indeed, they would be shocked to hear such an accusation. Modern pyramidology really got its start in 1859 when one John Taylor published a book about his view that the Great Pyramid was connected with Bible history. Other Christians soon jumped on the bandwagon, including the highly respected Astronomer Royal of Scotland, Piazzi Smyth. In 1864 Smyth published his own work on pyramidology, and this really got things going with many Christians. Again, there was no connection with the occult as far as they were concerned. Smyth published other books on the subject right on through the early 20th century. Somewhere along the line, occult practitioners jumped on the bandwagon, and so began the evolution of pyramidology from an essentially Christian background to today's fuzzy connection with the occult and New Age nonsense.

    Here are some links:

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Charles_Piazzi_Smyth

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pyramidology

    AlanF

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