Fighting dogs/brothers/my babies... Big dog owner suggestions?

restrangled

I was out for a walk with my 2 Dobies. I always stay on my block because they are too large, too strong and have aggressive tendencies(both in different areas) They get walked in harnesses connected to each other.

They don't get walked often enough because they are powerful, frightening beasts, but after a few glasses of wine I got up my nerve and took them out yesterday. (We have walked this route many times before with no problem)

Everything was fine until we neared the house. Suddenly the younger Dobe, (4 years and neutered) attacked the older Dobe (8 years and unneutered).....the fight that ensued was a nightmare. I could not get them apart. It must have went on at least 5 minutes.

These boys live together, sleep together, eat together, etc. etc. etc.and have for over 4 years.

It took 3 neighbors to help me pull them apart. The older Dobe (Police trained) was ripped up pretty good, but the younger one had little to no damage.

The older Dobe has been horribly depressed, and just finally eating and drinking.

This has depressed our entire household. I don't trust the younger one at all now.

Any suggestions?

r.

zeroday

They get walked in harnesses connected to each other.

It would be my guess this is the problem. Although domisticated they still have terroritorial instincts.

kitten whiskers

Looks like you forgot to give them a glass of wine to unwind too! j/k Give your neighbors one, because I sure wouldn't want to be between 2 large aggressive dogs. I feel really bad for your older dobe. I personally would never keep an animal who shows an aggressive behavior like that. If I can't trust it, it doesn't deserve to be in my home. I know you love your dogs and they are your babies, but I have seen a dobe try to attack an old lady and I would have put it down. They are a huge scary beast when they are on the attack. Granted, dogs do tend to growl and defend their space, food, etc. My grandma has 2 dogs and they have a growl and bark fight now and again. I don't know what to tell you, but maybe individual walks from now on? Maybe there was a fight over marking territory as you walked them? Maybe they are like kids that way. I don't know. I don't want to hurt your feelings, but please be careful. You are very fortunate to have gotten help and no one else get hurt. I wonder if your vet could give you some advice or information. I'm so sorry you had to go through this. (sorry, can't get my paragraphs to work on this new laptop)

juni

I would say that the younger of the two knows that the older has not been himself and is moving in to the position of dominance (alpha). Has the older one been the dominant one? Most likely yes. Remember no matter how much they become like our kids - they are still animals w/their instincts. This is pack behavior. Survival of the fittest.......

I would not get in between two dogs fighting. It's a good way to get mauled yourself. I would take them separately for walks right now.

What was that poster's name that trained police dogs? I think DeputyDog???

Why don't you go back in your other Topic about your Dobie issues and scan your posts. He would probably be a great source to ask for help.

Juni

Edited to add: IT IS DEPUTYDOG who does the training.

hopelesslystained

I have had 4 rottweilers for awhile, all living together, not in kennels. 3 males and 1 female. Got the first male as a pup and then rescued another male when they were both 1 1/2 yrs old. The vet told me to expect some knock out drag down fights as they would inevitibly have to establish dominance. They did and it was not pretty but dominance was established and we had peace. Then added a female pup and that was fine, the dominate one claimed her - al though all were neutered. Then rescued another male, older than the first 2 and once again the dominate one and the new guy had to establish their order.

I learned to first establish myself as the ultimate dominating factor with lots of training for them and me. It takes lots of effort to have these big guys who are very territorial and protective.

I do not think it is a good idea to harness them together.
I can walk all four at once,but on separate leashes. imagine seeing me coming down your sidewalk with 3 males on one side and 1 female on the other (total weight about 500lbs) with me being 5'2" and 125lb marching along with the leashes strapped over my shoulders. I use pinch collars with a backup of a choker for each, as pinch collars can sometimes come undone.

My point being it possible, but with male male combos it takes lots of time, exercise, training and love.

I suspect your younger male made an attempt at establishing his dominace over the older one sensing the older one may be slowing down. As learned, this is inevitble behavior.

Big males together are always a challenge.
I hope the above helps some.
http://i66.photobucket.com/albums/h242/redwytch/4pups2.jpg

juni

Good information hopelesslystained!

That's what is something w/dogs. It doesn't matter how big a person you are - if you being alpha has been established w/them you will not have issues between you and the pack.

You show weakness as alpha then the next dog in alpha position will step up to the plate. This is all for the benefit of the pack. INSTINCT - so the pack is together and a united front. Out in the wild if there were no alpha and the pack went willy-nilly they'd be prey for another pack.

I applaud you girl! And your four canines thank you too for taking the lead so they don't have to. Actually all they really want to do is eat, sleep and play. What a life!

Juni

restrangled

Thanks everyone...

Here is the problem...In the house, home, backyard I am the alpha. All I have to do is hand signals, absolutely no yelling....infact I don't even speak. I am first out of doors and first in. They actually lay down or sit before we enter or exit a door.

No problems with treats, eating etc. If I need to get past them, they instantly move. They have accepted my cat as untouchable. They even allow her to eat from their bowls, and if she shows up first they wait!!!!

The problem is in the street or outside the front door. Everything is up for grabs....I don't get it. I make them sit before we go out, they are on choke chains and body harnesses. But once out that door they are beyond what I know and their whole world changes.

I won't walk them any more. This was too much for me and for them.

r.

hopelesslystained

I can understand your frustration. I've been there. It's also embarrassing when they are so well behaved in the yard and house, but not in public. Especially with such beautiful and powerful beasts who already have a reputation. It can even hurt your feelings in a way some may never understand.

But now that it is this dominance thing that has started, do not be suprised if it happens at home. Things are apparently changing in their doggy world.

Back to their walking clothes, a body harness gives you virtually no control over these big boys and a choke chain is not going to phase them when they are in that 'fight or flight' mode. Juni is so correct about remembering they will act on instinct and are not people ("not people" is so easy to forget when we love them so much!). Again, I suggest learning how to use a pinch/training collar Properly fitted, placed and used, it will most definitely get their attention without causing injury like a choke can.

I'm sure they would still love to go on walks with you.
When I am out with mine I reestablish their attention on me and my dominance by periodically giving them the command to stop, sit, even lie down all together. Also, after dressing them to go out I make them sit and stay behind the fence as I go out and then call them one at a time, again, impressing my dominance on the outside as well.

Did you check out the picture link at the bottom of my last post? This was taken just after a long walk, they are very happy and tired.

restrangled

hopelesslystained, I'm sorry your link didn't work....I would love to see tired big dogs. Would you try again? Also thanks for your reply.

r.

hopelesslystained

I switch over to explorer from firefox. and tried attaching. hope it works.

Fighting dogs/brothers/my babies... Big dog owner suggestions?

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