When DID the Jews return?

by Doug Mason 73 Replies latest watchtower beliefs

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  scholar

  Doug Mason

  Post 213

  Regarding your listed summary and conclusions I wish to make the following points:

  • The calculation of 537 BCE for the Return is a very significant date for Christians and all those interested in Jewish history.
  • Celebrated WT scholars are the only ones who give historical weight to the fact of the reign of Darius both in terms of history and chronology and from the late forties and fifties was most certainly figured into the chronology of the Return. It is no 'smokescreen' as you allege or a 'conjurer's trick'.
  • It is impossible or totally unreasonable to say that the Return occurred in the early part of the 'first year ' of Cyrus implying that the Jews returned home Tishri, 538 BCE. There would not have been sufficient time for the proclamation of the Decree, journey preparations, a four month trek at least and resettlement. The only conclusion that fits all of the historical facts is that the Jews were at home by Tishri, 537 BCE.
  • Scholars know that the Decree was issued in Cyrus' 'first year' according to Ezra but no one knows the precise month for that Decree.
  • The facts of the Decree and the Return are known are are sufficient in order to determine the timing for the Return, history always has 'gaps' and is imperfect therefore all scholars including the 'celebrated' ones must engage in limited speculation in order to historize events. This is simply doing or making history.
  • Celebrated WT scholars have faith in Jehovah God the Author of the Bible and have sought his direction by means of His Spirit in order to interpret His Word and construct an accurate chronology. They are confident that 537 BCE is the right date for the Return. Romans 3:3-4.

  scholar JW
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  Doug Mason

  Scholar,

  The length of Darius’ reign “most certainly” does not figure in the WTS’s chronology of the Jews’ Return. These anonymous faceless WT writers ignore everything they write about Darius (probably because none of their outcomes fits their predetermined conclusion) by making the bald statement that whatever happened, they agree with everyone else, saying that if Nisan/accession-year reckoning is applied, Cyrus’ first regnal year started on Nisan 1, 538 BCE. (Do you still agree that Ezra used Tishri reckoning?)

  Did Cyrus issue his Decree on the first day of his first year? Neither you nor I knows the answer. The biased WT writers heap hope upon hope that he did not. Since the issuing of the Decree is pivotal for the WT’s foundation, they must prove it, one way or the other.

  If Cyrus issued his Decreee on the final day of his first regnal year does your argument of insufficient time still hold, meaning they returned in 536 BCE?

  It is not the historian’s right to “make history”, but to reconstruct it.

  So these speculative WT writers are “confident that 537 BCE is the right date for the Return.” They might be “confident” but that’s not good enough. Why don’t they share their reasons? All we get from that mob is “likely”, “perhaps” and “maybe”. That’s not confidence, that’s a sham. I am confident that they do not know, they just hope.

  If as you say there are ‘gaps’, ‘imperfections’ and ‘speculations’, then the foundation is broken, incorrect and speculative.

  If the year of the Jews’ return is so vitally important, as these unqualified WT writers would have us believe, why did Jehovah God fail to ensure the record has been preserved, either in his own Word or in the secular records?

  You referred me to Romans 3 and I wonder why. Here is the passage as rendered by the NIV:

  “What advantage, then, is there in being a Jew, or what value is there in circumcision? Much in every way! First of all, they have been entrusted with the very words of God.

  “What if some did not have faith? Will their lack of faith nullify God’s faithfulness? Not at all! Let God be true, and every man a liar. As it is written: ‘So that you may be proved right when you speak and prevail when you judge.’ [Ps 51:4]

  “But if our unrighteousness brings out God’s righteousness more clearly, what shall we say? That God is unjust in bringing his wrath on us? (I am using a human argument.) Certainly not! If that were so, how could God judge the world?

  “Someone might argue, ‘If my falsehood enhances God’s truthfulness and so increases his glory, why am I still condemned as a sinner?’ Why not say—as we are being slanderously reported as saying and as some claim that we say—‘Let us do evil that good may result’? Their condemnation is deserved.”

  I have carefully considered this passage and wonder why you raise it.

  My grandparents were Jews, to whom were entrusted God’s very words. One grandfather was a faithful man, the other was an atheist. Although one “did not have faith”, that never nullified the faithfulness of God. God is always true, otherwise he is not God and could not judge the world.

  Some, such as the WTS writers, might argue that their falsehood enhances God’s truthfulness, so they should not be considered sinners, but Paul says “their condemnation is deserved”.

  Doug
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  scholar

  Doug Mason

  Post 218

  Your research into WT literature is somewhat narrow as I have to hand published information which most certainly figures the reign of Darius into the chronology of the Return this was well presented in my earlier post where I quoted the WT source as referring to the full year of Cyrus 'reign. Ezra on this occasion in relation to the 'first year of Cyrus' most certainly would have used the Nisan calender rather than Tishri.

  No one knows except Alan F which month of that first year of Cyrus, his Decree was proclaimed and it is not necessary to know for certain which month it was because Ezra reveals that the Jews returned home by Tishri which could only have been in the following year using Nisanic calendation. In which case this allows for sufficient time for the Return of the Jews by Tishri, 537 BCE.

  When it comes to history and chronology, confidence based upon reason is quite sufficient for thereupon faith is thus well secured. The account of Ezra provides all the necessary facts for establishing the date for the Return and that is why 537 BCE has earned for itself the traditional date for that event.

  I used the passage in Romans to illustrate the importance of allowing God's Word rather than the theories of men to be the guiding force in one's Christian life.

  scholar JW
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  Jeffro

  Doug Mason:

  I would appreciate any thoughts.

  Japan is not in the southern hemisphere! (page 18)